A couple wisely decides to head back in... - Page 3 - SailNet Community
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post #21 of 44 Old 03-29-2013
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Re: A couple wisely decides to head back in...

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Originally Posted by RichH View Post
Usually no need to have a flattened main when deep reefed.
On the contrary, if deep reefed and flattened a sail will have little 'drive'/power for upwind work, ... especially if in big waves or very steep chop.

1. Flat sails are for 'speed sailing' in relatively flat water (think of this as a 'high gear' shape);
1a. full drafted or increased draft is for 'power' to punch through when in steep/big waves (think of this as low or lower gear shape).
The outhaul(s) can be equated to your 'gear selector' in an automobile.
To 'best' do this, adjust your outhaul to get the maximum speed from your knotmeter; otherwise, you can wind up being in high gear when you want to go 'up' a big hill. ....

(Obviously when not racing, you dont want to go very much beyond 'hull speed' in a displacement boat, etc. etc. etc.)

2. Reefing controls the amount of heeling.

Two different functions controlling two entirely different issues.

;-)

It seems like every time you post, I learn something.

After I posted about mainsail shape, I was thinking, "it was the pounding from the tall steep wave profile that sent them packing, not heel or lack of control". That was likely a function of the lightweight boat and it's flat-bottomed hull.

I wonder if my Formosa 41 with its finer clipper bow entry and full keel would have fared any better? Methinks the teeth would still be loosening from our skulls and with wife and kids aboard, at this point in our sailing career, we would have turned back earlier than they did.

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post #22 of 44 Old 03-29-2013
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Re: A couple wisely decides to head back in...

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Why are their lifelines so loose? (This is an honest question. Rephrased: are my lifelines too tight?)
good point. noticed that too.
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post #23 of 44 Old 03-29-2013
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Re: A couple wisely decides to head back in...

Growing up, in rough weather my Old Man was given to say:

"Kid, the boat's tougher than you are"

or, a slight variation:

"The boat can take it if you can"


It's been well-said here above, looks like the boat was tough enough and set up properly for the weather, but this experienced and seasoned crew of two, after getting a good taste of it, realized they didn't want to have to be that "tough" and run the risk of getting too cold and exhausted out there. Wise decision.
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post #24 of 44 Old 03-29-2013
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Re: A couple wisely decides to head back in...

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Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
Here is a good video of a captain making a wise decision to return to port after experiencing conditions that made for an uncomfortable ride:
Thanks for posting. Excellent video, showing two experienced crews with great teamwork and total control of their boat. I wish my wife would and is willing to do this with me.

I totally disagree if anyone said they should have stayed in port. We are sailors. Knowing your risk and taking it has its reward. Life is boring sitting at the dock.

I am jut sayin'.
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post #25 of 44 Old 03-29-2013
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Re: A couple wisely decides to head back in...

I agree. I would have gone out in that too (I enjoy that kind of weather, but my other half doesn't). I don't see a problem going out and check to see if it's too uncomfortable for a long stint. Personally I would probably have kept going, but with more than myself aboard, I would have returned too.

In other words, I think they made the right decisions all along.
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post #26 of 44 Old 03-29-2013
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Re: A couple wisely decides to head back in...

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Originally Posted by mr_f View Post
Why are their lifelines so loose? (This is an honest question. Rephrased: are my lifelines too tight?)
Structurally looser life lines (and jack lines) will be 'stronger' vs. impact and 'side forces' (load applied at ~90 to the long axis of the wire.

Mathematically, with a 'tight' cable or line if you apply a load perpendicularly, the resultant loads 'along' the cable or line begin to approach 'infinity' (dividing by the trigonmetric SINE of the angle .... dividing by 'near zero' winds up being a very LARGE number, or a VERY large applied stress); however the innate elasticity/stretch of the cable or line at max. stretch will relieve those angles (making those angles larger than 'zero' at the two attachment points of the cable or line).

Suffice it to say that your lifelines need to be well over ten times stronger than the max. impact load expected and applied at 90 to the long axis of the wire ... and then you always add a 'safety factor' on top of that.

Obviously you dont want 'sloppy loose' lifelines as that promotes a 'functional' failure.

Rx: dont make your life lines or jack lines 'bar tight'; a little 'slop' in the wire is 'useful' from a 'strength' viewpoint.

Last edited by RichH; 03-29-2013 at 01:16 PM.
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post #27 of 44 Old 03-29-2013
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Re: A couple wisely decides to head back in...

So in other words, slightly loose lifelines and (well) inboard mounted stanchions would be best - assuming the deck was strong enough?
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post #28 of 44 Old 03-29-2013
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Re: A couple wisely decides to head back in...

I wouldnt be in agreement for 'well inboard' stanchions ... as that would be a 'functional' failure or give rise to an undue and increasing difficulty going forward, etc.

My practice is not to 'depend' on life lines, for me they only clearly illustrate a 'boundary' that I shouldnt exceed .... and I wear a bombproof (combo short & long) tether and harness. :-)
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post #29 of 44 Old 03-29-2013
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Re: A couple wisely decides to head back in...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichH View Post
Structurally looser life lines (and jack lines) will be 'stronger' vs. impact and 'side forces' (load applied at ~90 to the long axis of the wire.

Mathematically, with a 'tight' cable or line if you apply a load perpendicularly, the resultant loads 'along' the cable or line begin to approach 'infinity' (dividing by the trigonmetric SINE of the angle .... dividing by 'near zero' winds up being a very LARGE number, or a VERY large applied stress); however the innate elasticity/stretch of the cable or line at max. stretch will relieve those angles (making those angles larger than 'zero' at the two attachment points of the cable or line).

Suffice it to say that your lifelines need to be well over ten times stronger than the max. impact load expected and applied at 90 to the long axis of the wire ... and then you always add a 'safety factor' on top of that.

Obviously you dont want 'sloppy loose' lifelines as that promotes a 'functional' failure.

Rx: dont make your life lines or jack lines 'bar tight'; a little 'slop' in the wire is 'useful' from a 'strength' viewpoint.
Maybe a picture would help. I drew this up a couple years ago. One of the biggest mistakes people can make is trying to relate the breaking tension of lifelines to their own weight. As you point out, it needs to be many many times greater that your own weight:



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post #30 of 44 Old 03-29-2013
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Re: A couple wisely decides to head back in...

Oh, my!!, the video brings back memories of the commercial salmon troller my Dad and I had. We would go out the San Francisco ship channel, in the dark, in far worse stuff than in the video to "make money". About the dumbest thing I ever did. I am not religous but used to pray "Dear God, please get me out of this and I will never do it again". Well, he did and I lied.

Years later we sailed a Coronado 25 out the Gate for 10 years, but were a WHOLE lot more carefull about the sea conditions., Being pushed by a schedule or for other motives can be harmfull to one's health. A picture of a boat nearly identical to ours, below:

Paul T
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