Vectran sleeve for anchor rode? - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree13Likes
Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 03-30-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,437
Thanks: 0
Thanked 116 Times in 103 Posts
Rep Power: 4
JonEisberg will become famous soon enough
Re: Vectran sleeve for anchor rode?

Quote:
Originally Posted by One View Post

What about a leaded anchor rode (as in "rope"), but having the lower half covered in Vectran, so as to protect against cuts? I mean, obviously, Dyneema won't work as it's not springy at all and is surprisingly easily cut, but Vectran or Kevlar (as used in stab proof vests) seems to be a completely different thing.
Vectran is "springy"? Uhhh, I don't think so... Dyneema is "easily cut"? Really? Have you ever tried to cut Amsteel? One of the reasons for its popularity for a wide variety of industrial applications is its high resistance to abrasion...

I think a length of Cordura chafe sleeve would be ideal for your purpose... Not sure why you'd need to attempt to 'match' the stretch of the rode itself, simply whip it at the end near the shackle, an appropriately sized sleeve isn't gonna go anywhere...

Cordura is very tough, this is what Yale uses as chafe protection on their polydyne mooring pennants... Great stuff...

CHAFE SLEEVE CORDURA FOR UP TO 3/4" ROPE NHS-114 137259

Samson makes chafing gear out of Cordura, as well...

  #12  
Old 03-30-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,437
Thanks: 0
Thanked 116 Times in 103 Posts
Rep Power: 4
JonEisberg will become famous soon enough
Re: Vectran sleeve for anchor rode?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
One,

I have been kicking around the idea of an all dyneema anchor line for a while. Sure you loose stretch, but so do all chain rodes as well and I don't see anyone screaming about all chain as a problem, though a snubber would be in order.
Hmmm, not sure that would be the greatest idea... The one thing that gives an all-chain rode its "stretch" is the catenary effect of the weight of the chain, and it generally requires pretty extreme conditions to snatch up a chain rode bar-tight... With an anchor rode of Amsteel or similar, even with a snubber, you could be seeing some high snatching loads quite easily...
  #13  
Old 03-30-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 583
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 6
NCC320 is on a distinguished road
Re: Vectran sleeve for anchor rode?

Since your concern is abrasion of the rope rode which will contact the bottom, how about this possibility.....a three part rode. Anchor, then short chain...20 ft. or so to help set the anchor, then high modulus, low (no) stretch abrasion resistant line (maybe a size larger than the main rode) for 50 ft. or so, and finallly, spliced into the high modulus line, a normal nylon rode for elasticity and shock absorption. Lengths of the various sections could be selected based on depth of anchorage water and where/how you use the boat.

Using a sleeve could get messy as dirt and dirty water could work in between the sleeve and the underlying rode. But, if it were sealed at both ends, a sleeve over the chain might make handling on deck by hand easier.

Last edited by NCC320; 03-30-2013 at 09:04 AM.
  #14  
Old 03-30-2013
pdqaltair's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 2,137
Thanks: 1
Thanked 28 Times in 28 Posts
Rep Power: 6
pdqaltair is on a distinguished road
Re: Vectran sleeve for anchor rode?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCC320 View Post
Since your concern is abrasion of the rope rode which will contact the bottom, how about this possibility.....a three part rode. Anchor, then short chain...20 ft. or so to help set the anchor, then high modulus, low (no) stretch abrasion resistant line (maybe a size larger than the main rode) for 50 ft. or so, and finally, spliced into the high modulus line, a normal nylon rode for elasticity and shock absorption. Lengths of the various sections could be selected based on depth of anchorage water and where/how you use the boat.
I almost suggested that but though a long snubber to be more practical and more conventional for that reason. It is simple to replace a snubber when its elasticity fades.

PLEASE don't cheat on anchor size. With this rode you will need a good modern anchor of honest size. Another option to cheat on weight is to use Fortress anchors and be prepared to set 2 some nights, but that is a ling complex discussion; generally it is a poor option.
__________________
(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
  #15  
Old 03-30-2013
One One is offline
Always tired
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 235
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 2
One is on a distinguished road
Re: Vectran sleeve for anchor rode?

Quote:
Originally Posted by katsailor View Post
It's all about the ability to dissipate heat that makes certain chafe gear perform better than others. There was a Practical $ailor article I recently read that evaluated chafe guards including several home built methods. I don't think Kevlar may be a good choice, while it has certain benefits in motorcycle clothing it isn't designed to go sliding down the road for hours after hours, day after day. I use Kevlar slings in my industry and they are very susceptible to failure if pinched or exposed to a hard edge.
Yup, hence I was looking at vectran and any other ideas such as the dacron suggestion.


Quote:
I think I would at least have some chain to help keep my anchor set.
Another point about chafe gear is that it can hide degraded conditions that may result in premature failure of your ground tackle.
It will be a loose sleeve, only stitched a little at both ends to stop it sliding off.

Quote:
I sure would like to hear your opinion of raising an anchor by hand without a bow roller after you have done it, anyway it's your boat and your back.
I've raised bigger anchors than the ones I'm talking about by hand before. Not chained anchors, though.

Quote:
PS I understand you are thinking outside the box but I am trying real hard to be civil in this forum, after all it's not advrider. You come across as a person thats a little rude and already knows it all. If you already have the answers why are you asking questions in this forum?
I'm not being rude. I'm being impatient with people who insist on misconstruing what I say.

Case in point:


Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Vectran is "springy"? Uhhh, I don't think so...
I never said it was springy, I was saying the actual anchor rope being springy. Think of a elasticated tether. The outer sleeve is longer than the relaxed state of the inner springy bit. In my use, however, the inner "elastic" will be the actual anchor rope, and the outer sleeve will be longer, relatively speaking, to the inner, so it will not at any point be taking any weight.

Quote:
Dyneema is "easily cut"? Really? Have you ever tried to cut Amsteel?
Yes, with a serrated blade on a taught line. It went through with only a few strokes.

Quote:
One of the reasons for its popularity for a wide variety of industrial applications is its high resistance to abrasion...
Abrasion resistance and cut resistance are not the same thing.


Quote:
I think a length of Cordura chafe sleeve would be ideal for your purpose... Not sure why you'd need to attempt to 'match' the stretch of the rode itself, simply whip it at the end near the shackle, an appropriately sized sleeve isn't gonna go anywhere...
I want to match the stretch because I want to go a bit oversize, so that I can 1) minimise heat between sleeve and the rope, and 2), because I don't want the sleeve to influence the stretch of the actual rope.

Quote:
Cordura is very tough, this is what Yale uses as chafe protection on their polydyne mooring pennants... Great stuff...
Yes, but that would be one long stitch going along the rode. Cordura is nylon, btw.

Quote:

Samson makes chafing gear out of Cordura, as well...
Still, I would have a long stitch going down the length of the chafe gear. and it will be stiff. A sleeve made from something already tubular would be the easiest

P.S. NC322 and PDQ, I have seen your posts, but I have to go, I will respond to them later today
  #16  
Old 03-30-2013
One One is offline
Always tired
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 235
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 2
One is on a distinguished road
Re: Vectran sleeve for anchor rode?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCC320 View Post
Since your concern is abrasion of the rope rode which will contact the bottom, how about this possibility.....a three part rode. Anchor, then short chain...20 ft. or so to help set the anchor, then high modulus, low (no) stretch abrasion resistant line (maybe a size larger than the main rode) for 50 ft. or so, and finallly, spliced into the high modulus line, a normal nylon rode for elasticity and shock absorption. Lengths of the various sections could be selected based on depth of anchorage water and where/how you use the boat.
I will probably end up having a bit of chain, at least as a back up rode. I'm still not too confident about having any part of the stuff being high modulus, though. But having "stuff" in three separate parts just might be the way to go. Couple this with PDQs suggestion of long nylon snubbers and I think we might be on to somethin.

Quote:
Using a sleeve could get messy as dirt and dirty water could work in between the sleeve and the underlying rode. But, if it were sealed at both ends, a sleeve over the chain might make handling on deck by hand easier.
Yes, I was thinking of stitching the sleeve with only a few stitches at both ends, so it could be pulled up and down easily with a few snips and just as easily stitched back - mostly because it would be an easy way to inspect the underlying rope for chafe. Perhaps it would be even easier to tape it, he he.


I'm still contemplating that sleeve over the chain idea. It would certainly make it easier to handle on deck by hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
I almost suggested that but though a long snubber to be more practical and more conventional for that reason. It is simple to replace a snubber when its elasticity fades.
Yes, I concur. I think I have to come up with some sort of combination that works for my particular boat and needs/wants. Regardless of anything else, I will be using snubber(s), simply because the boat has a bowsprit and bobstay, so I figure it's needed.


Quote:
PLEASE don't cheat on anchor size. With this rode you will need a good modern anchor of honest size.
Oh, I won't cheat in this regard. The anchor in question is the Manson Supreme, and as far as I can tell from Manson's and Rocna's respective websites, it is the correct size for the boat (33lbs. or so).

Quote:
Another option to cheat on weight is to use Fortress anchors and be prepared to set 2 some nights, but that is a ling complex discussion; generally it is a poor option.
Yes, the "fortress type" I mentioned a bit earlier was Mansons "Racer" anchor. The reason for the "racer" over an actual Fortress anchor is the plastic "bubbles" on the ends of the perpendicular rod, so as to not punch a hole in, or scar the boat when getting it out. I was thinking the Manson R9, which weighs in at 32.4lbs, or perhaps the R10 which weighs in at 35.7lbs. They are meant for (racing) boats 46-52ft and 49-55ft respectively. So, although meant for lightweight racing boats, I'm choosing a rather large size, if I go for either of those.
  #17  
Old 03-30-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Maine
Posts: 589
Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 4
DonScribner is on a distinguished road
Re: Vectran sleeve for anchor rode?

It is very beneficial to respond in a less combative way. These guys, many have deep pockets and deeper opinions, also have a degree of experience that those of us with a lesser degree of both should at least consider. "I don't agree, but I'll think about it" can go a long way. That said:

My Lancer 25 displaces about 4000 lbs and is a little wider than your baby. Even though she is lighter and shorter than your rocket (she must FLY!) I wouldn't go without a chain for the first 10 feet or so. I can see what you're trying to do and in its simplicity, it seems plausible but I don't believe you'll find a leaded line with enough weight to make the rode hug the sea bed like it should. But, I do like the idea of covering some of the rode with Vectran. My line is getting a little beat up at the thimble and the Vectran would take care of that . . . once I resplice it. And as far as "out of the box" goes, I'm an architectural skylight designer that keeps getting threatened to get back in the box. I didn't know there was one. So . . .keep on thinking but keep an eye on the old "fahts" that have learned a thing or two, and paid the repairs.

Don

Maine
  #18  
Old 03-30-2013
One One is offline
Always tired
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 235
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 2
One is on a distinguished road
Re: Vectran sleeve for anchor rode?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonScribner View Post
It is very beneficial to respond in a less combative way. These guys, many have deep pockets and deeper opinions, also have a degree of experience that those of us with a lesser degree of both should at least consider. "I don't agree, but I'll think about it" can go a long way.
I did that when the people in question actually read what I wrote. Not so much when people continue to misconstrue what I say, seemingly on purpose.


Quote:
That said:

My Lancer 25 displaces about 4000 lbs and is a little wider than your baby. Even though she is lighter and shorter than your rocket (she must FLY!) I wouldn't go without a chain for the first 10 feet or so. I can see what you're trying to do and in its simplicity, it seems plausible but I don't believe you'll find a leaded line with enough weight to make the rode hug the sea bed like it should. But, I do like the idea of covering some of the rode with Vectran. My line is getting a little beat up at the thimble and the Vectran would take care of that . . . once I resplice it. And as far as "out of the box" goes, I'm an architectural skylight designer that keeps getting threatened to get back in the box. I didn't know there was one. So . . .keep on thinking but keep an eye on the old "fahts" that have learned a thing or two, and paid the repairs.

Don

Maine
Thanks, I do think I might end up having a covered piece of chain at the bottom, although I will do my utmost to find another solution, even if that means more inspection. I also think, that regardless what gear I end up with, I think a piece of chain to be attached will be the prudent thing to do, especially if leaving the boat for a couple of days. I would just prefer to not use it on a daily basis. Especially not a rough, uncovered chain.
  #19  
Old 03-30-2013
pdqaltair's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 2,137
Thanks: 1
Thanked 28 Times in 28 Posts
Rep Power: 6
pdqaltair is on a distinguished road
Re: Vectran sleeve for anchor rode?

I like the Fortress with no ball on the ends because of the way I store them; I place them on edge in a locker with the arm through a hole in the floor. This has worked on 2 boats, but each is different.

I have a 35-pound Manson Supreme (32-foot, 8000-pound cat) and it seems about right. Since it will drag in soft mud on short scope, it is certainly not too big. Solid as hell in any good bottom.
__________________
(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
  #20  
Old 03-30-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,437
Thanks: 0
Thanked 116 Times in 103 Posts
Rep Power: 4
JonEisberg will become famous soon enough
Re: Vectran sleeve for anchor rode?

Quote:
Originally Posted by One View Post

I'm not being rude. I'm being impatient with people who insist on misconstruing what I say.

Case in point:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg
Vectran is "springy"? Uhhh, I don't think so...
I never said it was springy, I was saying the actual anchor rope being springy. Think of a elasticated tether. The outer sleeve is longer than the relaxed state of the inner springy bit. In my use, however, the inner "elastic" will be the actual anchor rope, and the outer sleeve will be longer, relatively speaking, to the inner, so it will not at any point be taking any weight.
Ooops, my bad... No doubt I'm the sole reader of this thread who could have possibly construed what you wrote here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by One View Post

... I mean, obviously, Dyneema won't work as it's not springy at all and is surprisingly easily cut, but Vectran or Kevlar (as used in stab proof vests) seems to be a completely different thing.
...to imply that you may think Vectran - being a "completely different thing" from Dyneema, and all - might possess some degree of elasticity that Dyneema lacks, and thus more suitable for what you have in mind...

As to your other points...

You're right, abrasion resistance is not the same as cut resistance... If you genuinely fear your rode being "cut" as opposed to being abraded in places where you routinely anchor (whether by sharp rock, or debris fouling the bottom, etc.) then you really should go with at least some amount of chain in your rode...

Yes, I'm aware that Cordura is a nylon... Thus, it would seem a good candidate for your desire to have your sleeve come close to matching the elasticity of your rode...

Not sure what the issue with the stitching of Cordura chafe sleeves would be... It most certainly does not add a perceptible degree of "stiffness" to the sleeves, they remain extremely pliable... More so than your leaded rode, no doubt...

Anyway, good luck with finding a supplier of Tubular Vectran... You'll save some time by skipping over the first few hundred hits for the term in a Google search, unless you happen to be in the market for some high-tech bicycle tires, as well...

Last edited by JonEisberg; 03-30-2013 at 04:38 PM.
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anchor Rode Length sailjunkie Gear & Maintenance 14 03-22-2010 08:09 PM
Anchor rode flaking cmcpheeters Pacific Seacraft 19 02-04-2010 07:20 AM
Splicing anchor rode MtHopeBay Seamanship & Navigation 42 04-17-2009 06:37 PM
Markers for Anchor Rode Neicy Gear & Maintenance 19 07-08-2008 09:28 PM
anchor rode maestro Gear & Maintenance 9 06-19-2005 11:38 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:48 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.