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  #41  
Old 04-03-2013
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Re: Apparently I'm not meant to have a boat...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimgo View Post
OK, y'all are making me feel better about her, thanks! It was just SO frustrating to hear the marina guy say "well, I think the repair cost is going to be more than the value of the boat". Of course, that does include his labor.

I've asked the captain about any accidents and he says no, but I think he's afraid I'm going to come after him for the repair costs. I think I need to call my insurance company in the AM to find out more about what's covered. Then a call to the surveyor.

Is it possible that the prop tangled in something, then broke the "something" that tangled it? As I understand it, damping plates don't normally "just" fail, but if the shaft suddenly stops (e.g., the transmission seizes or the prop hits something/gets tangled) the centrifugal force can be enough to break the plate. I think that's what happened here. I don't think the transmission seized, unless it happened temporarily, because the shaft can be spun by hand and I believe the shaft is still attached to the transmission. That basically leaves the prop getting tangled in something at some point, but then it had to come free, or else the proop and shaft wouldn't spin (the mechanic was able to spin it by hand today).

If the shaft locked up, could that also have caused the engine mounts to break? I'm guessing they were probably original, so any major force would probably have done them in.

If the motor mounts broke, could have have lead to the misalignment in the shaft? I can understand the misalignment resulting in the shaft wearing into the hull in that area. I don't know how far/bad the wear is; could the shifting of the motor have caused some of that?

The cutlast bearing was great during the survey; it was super stable without any movement.

Sorry for all the questions; just trying to understand before I talk to the surveyor and the insurance company.

I basically outlined that scenario for you as being the most likely.

Again,I dealt with this on a fellows boat and it was caused specifically by the shaft wrapping up a line until it was snug enough to tear the motor free of the boat, breaking the cast motor mount brackets, a motor mount and the fiberglass stringers that held them. Yay dyneema, possibly a poor choice of dinghy painter material- but anyway. Once the motor mounts break, and the motor drops 1-2" then the shaft is signifgantly out of alignment at which point your shaft goes to work on its seal, the shaft log and eventually your hull, It is likely that you will end up taking on water once you lift the motor back into place. When I dealt with this on that boat in NAssau haulout wasnt an option. I coated the shaft with jonson paste wax once the motor was back in place, and used stick epoxy that works under water to rebuild the lip on the shaft log where the boot covers it, additonally I packed the area around the shaft snug to the shaft, rellying on the paste wax to prevent bonding of the shaft to the epoxy- essentially bedding it, and coming very close to sealing it. NOt what one wants for the life of the boat, but a legitimate fix to allow the motor to be used, and get through unti the next haulout, when the shaft can be pulled and the log, bearing, gland, seals etc rebuilt/ replaced.

Take a toilet paper roll, and then take wooden dowel, or a pencil or what have you, and place it in the toilet paper roll, centered- representing proprer shaft/log alignment, now raise one end of the pencil, while dropping the other, you now have the "shaft" making contact both for and aft in the "log", and can see how it can tear up the log, the seal, the bearings, and the shaft.




There really isnt anything about 95% of the work facing you that actually calls for any real technical knowhow- but yeah, some serious sweat equity.

Last edited by c. breeze; 04-03-2013 at 06:05 PM.
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  #42  
Old 04-03-2013
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Re: Apparently I'm not meant to have a boat...

Sorry Chef, I thought it was a sail boat on the water, other wise I would have never suggested sailing it home.
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  #43  
Old 04-03-2013
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Re: Apparently I'm not meant to have a boat...

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Originally Posted by Capt.aaron View Post
Sorry Chef, I thought it was a sail boat on the water, other wise I would have never suggested sailing it home.

Aaron,

Maybe I was a bit harsh. I respect your posts.

Of course its a sailboat in the water, but you are prohibited from sailing through the C&D Canal ( 18 miles) and also trying sailing down the Delaware is a mission of failure and with light winds, no place to anchor, and 48 miles of shallow choppy water with a 3 knot current which reverses every 6 hours could take a few days vs 6 hours of motoring ( almost every sailboat transits this stretch of the Delaware by motoring), then to attempt a NJ Inlet by sail only with no motor backup let alone Barneget is foolish.

There are places where even if you have a sailboat, not using its motor is not prudent. This is not the wide open ocean.
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  #44  
Old 04-03-2013
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Re: Apparently I'm not meant to have a boat...

I get it. But can't he go out in the Atlantic, sail north to N.J. and then Back in. I know sailboats that handle worse than a modern boat sailed these waters for hundreds of years before the eng. was invented. When my eng. died for good 20 years ago, I sailed it 400 miles home, through draw bridges, creeks strong tidals and learned how well I could get by with out it, I never put it back in. True I'm misinformed on the actual area, and I can take a "Stow it" comment, and I to respect your posts and oppinions, but I bet he could sail it from Maryland to N.J. Maybe not up through the way your say'n. He might have to back track, go out and .............aH @#!*% what do I know? He's probably 40 miles up river and and has to get 40 miles up another you're right I'll stow it.
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Last edited by Capt.aaron; 04-03-2013 at 07:21 PM.
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  #45  
Old 04-03-2013
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Re: Apparently I'm not meant to have a boat...

While sailing a sail boat to a destination by wind alone is certainly possible I am not sure that it is always advisable. Not everyone has the "Captain Ron" gene in them.

I also get the sense that Jimgo is perhaps not that experienced and probably too sensible than to want to push his luck.

As Mr. Chef pointed out the currents an inlets along his route are reason enough to want to do it with a working engine.

I also prefer sailing to motoring but it is a necessary evil for most of us as well as a safety component.
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Old 04-03-2013
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Re: Apparently I'm not meant to have a boat...

Sorry for your loss!

This just reinforces my observation that sailboat surveyors are surveying a sailboat and therefore ignore the mechanicals that aren't associated with rigging, steering and hull. Any sailboat that has an auxiliary engine really needs a surveyor to opine on the sailboat and a mechanic to opine on the condition of things mechanical.

Talk to a lawyer. You may have recourse against the seller, a broker or...who knows!
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  #47  
Old 04-03-2013
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Re: Apparently I'm not meant to have a boat...

Jim, this is GREAT NEWS!
It happened on the Magothy, not out there.
And you don't have cancer.
The boat hasn't sunk.
And you don't have dementia.
You're at a free slip.
And you don't live in North Korea.
This gives you the chance to make the most suspect complicated system on the boat bulletproof, on your terms, and provides you the opportunity to become familiar with the system that most scares most sailors.
And you don't live life breathing through a tube.

This is just money and time, man. Think of it as an opportunity, take your time, do most of the work yourself, any machining that needs to be done can be done by any truck or tractor shop and it will cost you a lot less than you think it will.

Ferpetersake, don't hang an outbaord on the back. at the end of the day the difference in cost is really hundreds, not thousands, and if you start on the "well, this is cheaper and faster and good enough" route from the very first major project on the boat, you might as well cut her up now... rather than spending the next few years fixing fixes and chasing problems and being dissatisfied with your boat and basically despoiling a girl who just wants to be loved.

As the old saying goes- if you haven't got the time or money to do it right, when will you have the time and money to do it again?

Take pride in your ride.
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  #48  
Old 04-03-2013
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Re: Apparently I'm not meant to have a boat...

bljones, despite my initial post, believe it or not, your comment is similar to my attitude up to this point. I was really OK with the engine breaking down - I was glad that it happened to the captain and not me. We got the engine working last weekend (the starter) and, with the help of everyone here, I was able to figure out that it was the damping plate that had failed. So, I was OK with having to replace that, and even having to replace the transmission, but the marina's feedback was really just crushing.

As Chef said, I was OK with having to put money into the boat. But I was REALLY hoping to do that on my own timescale, not right away, before we even had a chance to take her out!
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Old 04-03-2013
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Re: Apparently I'm not meant to have a boat...

I hear you, man. Life happens when you least expect it, and it never seems to be when you can most afford it.
Welcome to sailing. Exhilarating power under sail, punctuated by inconvenient, unexpected irregular infusions of astonishing amounts of cash.
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Re: Apparently I'm not meant to have a boat...

You may be able to do the work you need to do without removing the engine, which saves both time and money. Remove jack and support the engine, remove the tranny, shaft, etc, rebuild replace as needed. reinstall, jack the drivetrain to replace mounts, align shaft, go.

Start advertising now on CL and surfing the web for a good used gearbox or complete drivetrain. By placing wanted ads, you have more control over the price you will pay for the parts you need.
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