Apparently I'm not meant to have a boat... - Page 5 - SailNet Community
 228Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #41 of 455 Old 04-03-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Transient
Posts: 158
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 3
 
Re: Apparently I'm not meant to have a boat...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimgo View Post
OK, y'all are making me feel better about her, thanks! It was just SO frustrating to hear the marina guy say "well, I think the repair cost is going to be more than the value of the boat". Of course, that does include his labor.

I've asked the captain about any accidents and he says no, but I think he's afraid I'm going to come after him for the repair costs. I think I need to call my insurance company in the AM to find out more about what's covered. Then a call to the surveyor.

Is it possible that the prop tangled in something, then broke the "something" that tangled it? As I understand it, damping plates don't normally "just" fail, but if the shaft suddenly stops (e.g., the transmission seizes or the prop hits something/gets tangled) the centrifugal force can be enough to break the plate. I think that's what happened here. I don't think the transmission seized, unless it happened temporarily, because the shaft can be spun by hand and I believe the shaft is still attached to the transmission. That basically leaves the prop getting tangled in something at some point, but then it had to come free, or else the proop and shaft wouldn't spin (the mechanic was able to spin it by hand today).

If the shaft locked up, could that also have caused the engine mounts to break? I'm guessing they were probably original, so any major force would probably have done them in.

If the motor mounts broke, could have have lead to the misalignment in the shaft? I can understand the misalignment resulting in the shaft wearing into the hull in that area. I don't know how far/bad the wear is; could the shifting of the motor have caused some of that?

The cutlast bearing was great during the survey; it was super stable without any movement.

Sorry for all the questions; just trying to understand before I talk to the surveyor and the insurance company.

I basically outlined that scenario for you as being the most likely.

Again,I dealt with this on a fellows boat and it was caused specifically by the shaft wrapping up a line until it was snug enough to tear the motor free of the boat, breaking the cast motor mount brackets, a motor mount and the fiberglass stringers that held them. Yay dyneema, possibly a poor choice of dinghy painter material- but anyway. Once the motor mounts break, and the motor drops 1-2" then the shaft is signifgantly out of alignment at which point your shaft goes to work on its seal, the shaft log and eventually your hull, It is likely that you will end up taking on water once you lift the motor back into place. When I dealt with this on that boat in NAssau haulout wasnt an option. I coated the shaft with jonson paste wax once the motor was back in place, and used stick epoxy that works under water to rebuild the lip on the shaft log where the boot covers it, additonally I packed the area around the shaft snug to the shaft, rellying on the paste wax to prevent bonding of the shaft to the epoxy- essentially bedding it, and coming very close to sealing it. NOt what one wants for the life of the boat, but a legitimate fix to allow the motor to be used, and get through unti the next haulout, when the shaft can be pulled and the log, bearing, gland, seals etc rebuilt/ replaced.

Take a toilet paper roll, and then take wooden dowel, or a pencil or what have you, and place it in the toilet paper roll, centered- representing proprer shaft/log alignment, now raise one end of the pencil, while dropping the other, you now have the "shaft" making contact both for and aft in the "log", and can see how it can tear up the log, the seal, the bearings, and the shaft.




There really isnt anything about 95% of the work facing you that actually calls for any real technical knowhow- but yeah, some serious sweat equity.

Last edited by c. breeze; 04-03-2013 at 06:05 PM.
c. breeze is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #42 of 455 Old 04-03-2013
KNOT KNOWN
 
Capt.aaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Guanaja, Bay Islands, Honduras
Posts: 1,320
Thanks: 1
Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Apparently I'm not meant to have a boat...

Sorry Chef, I thought it was a sail boat on the water, other wise I would have never suggested sailing it home.
SolSailor and c. breeze like this.

" Some are boat wise and some are other wise"
Capt.aaron is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #43 of 455 Old 04-03-2013
Senior Member
 
chef2sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,079
Thanks: 30
Thanked 58 Times in 54 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: Apparently I'm not meant to have a boat...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.aaron View Post
Sorry Chef, I thought it was a sail boat on the water, other wise I would have never suggested sailing it home.

Aaron,

Maybe I was a bit harsh. I respect your posts.

Of course its a sailboat in the water, but you are prohibited from sailing through the C&D Canal ( 18 miles) and also trying sailing down the Delaware is a mission of failure and with light winds, no place to anchor, and 48 miles of shallow choppy water with a 3 knot current which reverses every 6 hours could take a few days vs 6 hours of motoring ( almost every sailboat transits this stretch of the Delaware by motoring), then to attempt a NJ Inlet by sail only with no motor backup let alone Barneget is foolish.

There are places where even if you have a sailboat, not using its motor is not prudent. This is not the wide open ocean.
JimMcGee likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
chef2sail is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #44 of 455 Old 04-03-2013
KNOT KNOWN
 
Capt.aaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Guanaja, Bay Islands, Honduras
Posts: 1,320
Thanks: 1
Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Apparently I'm not meant to have a boat...

I get it. But can't he go out in the Atlantic, sail north to N.J. and then Back in. I know sailboats that handle worse than a modern boat sailed these waters for hundreds of years before the eng. was invented. When my eng. died for good 20 years ago, I sailed it 400 miles home, through draw bridges, creeks strong tidals and learned how well I could get by with out it, I never put it back in. True I'm misinformed on the actual area, and I can take a "Stow it" comment, and I to respect your posts and oppinions, but I bet he could sail it from Maryland to N.J. Maybe not up through the way your say'n. He might have to back track, go out and .............aH @#!*% what do I know? He's probably 40 miles up river and and has to get 40 miles up another you're right I'll stow it.

" Some are boat wise and some are other wise"

Last edited by Capt.aaron; 04-03-2013 at 07:21 PM.
Capt.aaron is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #45 of 455 Old 04-03-2013
Tartan 27' owner
 
CalebD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,738
Thanks: 4
Thanked 107 Times in 99 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Apparently I'm not meant to have a boat...

While sailing a sail boat to a destination by wind alone is certainly possible I am not sure that it is always advisable. Not everyone has the "Captain Ron" gene in them.

I also get the sense that Jimgo is perhaps not that experienced and probably too sensible than to want to push his luck.

As Mr. Chef pointed out the currents an inlets along his route are reason enough to want to do it with a working engine.

I also prefer sailing to motoring but it is a necessary evil for most of us as well as a safety component.

"The cure for anything is salt water~ sweat, tears, or the sea." ~Isak Denesen

Everybody has one:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
CalebD is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #46 of 455 Old 04-03-2013
Loxidrome
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: BVI and USA
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Send a message via Skype™ to OxKaufman
Re: Apparently I'm not meant to have a boat...

Sorry for your loss!

This just reinforces my observation that sailboat surveyors are surveying a sailboat and therefore ignore the mechanicals that aren't associated with rigging, steering and hull. Any sailboat that has an auxiliary engine really needs a surveyor to opine on the sailboat and a mechanic to opine on the condition of things mechanical.

Talk to a lawyer. You may have recourse against the seller, a broker or...who knows!
OxKaufman is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #47 of 455 Old 04-03-2013
Senior Member
 
bljones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: South Coast Ontario
Posts: 8,469
Thanks: 35
Thanked 90 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 8
   
Re: Apparently I'm not meant to have a boat...

Jim, this is GREAT NEWS!
It happened on the Magothy, not out there.
And you don't have cancer.
The boat hasn't sunk.
And you don't have dementia.
You're at a free slip.
And you don't live in North Korea.
This gives you the chance to make the most suspect complicated system on the boat bulletproof, on your terms, and provides you the opportunity to become familiar with the system that most scares most sailors.
And you don't live life breathing through a tube.

This is just money and time, man. Think of it as an opportunity, take your time, do most of the work yourself, any machining that needs to be done can be done by any truck or tractor shop and it will cost you a lot less than you think it will.

Ferpetersake, don't hang an outbaord on the back. at the end of the day the difference in cost is really hundreds, not thousands, and if you start on the "well, this is cheaper and faster and good enough" route from the very first major project on the boat, you might as well cut her up now... rather than spending the next few years fixing fixes and chasing problems and being dissatisfied with your boat and basically despoiling a girl who just wants to be loved.

As the old saying goes- if you haven't got the time or money to do it right, when will you have the time and money to do it again?

Take pride in your ride.

It's 5 o'clock somewhere:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bljones is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #48 of 455 Old 04-03-2013 Thread Starter
Asleep at the wheel
 
jimgo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,014
Thanks: 71
Thanked 117 Times in 115 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Apparently I'm not meant to have a boat...

bljones, despite my initial post, believe it or not, your comment is similar to my attitude up to this point. I was really OK with the engine breaking down - I was glad that it happened to the captain and not me. We got the engine working last weekend (the starter) and, with the help of everyone here, I was able to figure out that it was the damping plate that had failed. So, I was OK with having to replace that, and even having to replace the transmission, but the marina's feedback was really just crushing.

As Chef said, I was OK with having to put money into the boat. But I was REALLY hoping to do that on my own timescale, not right away, before we even had a chance to take her out!

- Jim
Home: Western Philly 'burbs
1980 Allmand 31
1975 Albacore 15


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jimgo is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #49 of 455 Old 04-03-2013
Senior Member
 
bljones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: South Coast Ontario
Posts: 8,469
Thanks: 35
Thanked 90 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 8
   
Re: Apparently I'm not meant to have a boat...

I hear you, man. Life happens when you least expect it, and it never seems to be when you can most afford it.
Welcome to sailing. Exhilarating power under sail, punctuated by inconvenient, unexpected irregular infusions of astonishing amounts of cash.
MedSailor likes this.

It's 5 o'clock somewhere:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bljones is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #50 of 455 Old 04-03-2013
Senior Member
 
bljones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: South Coast Ontario
Posts: 8,469
Thanks: 35
Thanked 90 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 8
   
Re: Apparently I'm not meant to have a boat...

You may be able to do the work you need to do without removing the engine, which saves both time and money. Remove jack and support the engine, remove the tranny, shaft, etc, rebuild replace as needed. reinstall, jack the drivetrain to replace mounts, align shaft, go.

Start advertising now on CL and surfing the web for a good used gearbox or complete drivetrain. By placing wanted ads, you have more control over the price you will pay for the parts you need.

It's 5 o'clock somewhere:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bljones is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need an engine part that apparently doesnt exist anymore Soundtrackzz Gear & Maintenance 15 07-16-2012 12:36 PM
Summer in Southwest Florida meant for boating enthusiasts - The News-Press NewsReader News Feeds 0 06-14-2012 01:20 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome