SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

Apparently I'm not meant to have a boat...

57K views 454 replies 66 participants last post by  jimgo 
#1 ·
I'm crushed. The 1980 Allmand 31 we just purchased may be about to be parted out. The damping plate exploded in the engine when the boat was moved from VA to the Northern Chesepeake. The marina was just out to look at it, and they say that the motor mounts were shot, most of the hoses in the engine should have been replaced, the prop shaft was misaligned and cutting through the hull, and the transmission is likely shot. The cost to repair everything will likely exceed the value of the boat.

I had the boat surveyed by someone who was recommended by two different marinas in that area. I can't believe he missed some of these issues.
 
#3 ·
I'm sorry Jim, that's terrible.

Do you have an idea of how long it would take you to do those repairs yourself? Replacing hoses and motor mounts might be things that you can do yourself, while replacing the damping plate is more likely to be something that should be done by a mechanic.

Was the boat hauled during the survey? That level of prop shaft mis-alignment is probably easier to see out of the water than in.
 
#6 ·
OK life is not good just now but before you start up the chain saw lets inventory what you NEED to get things working again.

You need a damper plate, yup they break, you don't say what the engine and gearbox are but lets say its a Yanmar 2gm plate is about $160.

Most often you need to take the engine and gearbox out to work on it. It can be done afloat with a block and tackle off the boom but spread the load.

It has made it through 30 + years so it should be possible to put it back the way it was and get a few more. So think hard before making major and expensive changes.

REMEMBER IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT.

If the engine mounts have seperated they DO need to be replaced. A failed mount may also have caused the misalignment.

4 mounts are going to be around $600.

So parts less than $1k sweat and knuckle blood come free if you do the job. Capn Fatty managed it so can you.
 
#9 ·
I have to disagree with the outboard option. It may not be the least expensive and certainly is not the best operational option. Remember, you have the motor mount, the control lines and the fuel lines and tank. If you settle for hand cranked, then you are going to be hanging over the stern trying to get a %%^^&* outboard started. But most importantly the time you will most depend on the engine is in foul weather and an outboard mounted on the stern of a sailboat is not a good situation as the propeller comes out of the water when bouncing over chop. And then the engine dies, and how do you restart it? By hanging over the stern in heavy chop. Do you single hand? If so this is a non-starter.
Take the above advice and determine what it takes to fix the inboard and make it dependable for the next ten years.
And don't assume you are not meant to sail. That's crazy talk. Go read Smackdaddy's ode to sailing on his BFS site and steele your nerves for the engine overhaul.
 
#11 ·
Thanks guys. The engine is a Universal 5416. Yes, I can DIY some of this, and that would be MUCH easier if I was at my home slip. Unfortunately, the boat is "en route" at ChucklesR's slip (bet he's sorry now! ;) ). I can try to get her moved to a marina not far from there and (hopefully) be able to do the work there, but it's not exactly a convenient location for DIY (it's about 2.5 hours, each way, from home).
 
#21 · (Edited)
isn't there a rule about borrowing a slip, that says the slip owner must help in all repairs necessary to get his slip back, or was it, he has the right to slip the lines any time he wants you gone.
it's one of those rules
any thing on a boat can be fixed with enough sweat and some money
those are nice boats worth fixing
its a sail boat, sail it home
 
#12 ·
We have a Davidson 40 racer on our dock with a 20 HP outboard on the back... not ideal, but they really only need it to enter/leave the marina for the most part.

Not ideal..... but doable....

Jimgo, was the survey and out-of-water one? Were you present? Tough go but don't write everything off yet, including some kind of recompense from the "Surveyor".
 
#13 ·
I'm only sorry for your troubles.
If it had gotten towed to a marina in the first place you'd be out an additional 45 a day charge for storage, wouldn't have helped a bit.
Since towing is 'free', why not look for a slip/haul up towards you (north chesapeake area) and have it towed there?
 
#14 ·
Lots of good advice above (except going with an outboard). Calmly assess exactly what is wrong and do it yourself. Look at it as an opportunity to get to know the boat. In the long run, if you have to depend on marinas and $80/hr help, it will make owning a boat too expensive. Part of owning a boat for us who cannot afford servants is learning how to fix it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CalebD
#15 ·
Yes, survey was in water and out of water. I was there, but I have (or had) no idea what I'm looking at when it comes to an inboard. The surveyor didn't think the hoses were too bad; the marina thinks they are horrible. No mention was made about the motor moutns, nor was there any discussion of the shaft misalignment or the related damage. I would have thought that he would have picked up on those.

I don't think an outboard is in the cards. It will either be a fixed inboard, transmission, etc., or probably scrapping the boat.

I still haven't ruled out that something happened (crab pot/line/etc.) that caused the shaft to seize and, thus, the damping plate to explode, but I'll need to pull her before we can make a determination there.
 
#16 ·
I agree with most of the posters here, "dont give up the ship"!

If this is the boat for you, the repairs might not be so bad. I just replaced the transmission (with used ~$500) all 4 motor mounts (~500 new) and damper plate (~$160 new). All that with the engine in the boat. if you have decent access, and depending on the engine, this is a 2 day job (for an amateur like me).

My engine is a Yanmar 2QM20. Here are pictures

mounts

transmission

So if the boat is otherwise the right boat for you go for it. And be glad that this happened now and not on your maiden sail with the missus!
 
#17 ·
Just fix it, don't restore it. Time to download a manual, load up your tool box and sleep in the boat for a few days while you replace the damper plate. Leave everything else until later, handle it as an emergency repair until you can get her home and look it over at your leisure. A long weekend and you have to boat running and operational again..
 
  • Like
Reactions: bljones
#19 ·
We have, in the past, fabricated a temporary outboard mount in order to get a boat home where it could be more easily worked on. This might be an option for you even if only to get the boat home... for that matter a couple of hundred bucks for a good mount, 4 holes and a backing plate and you're on your way. It can be removed and the holes filled and faired post repairs.

It could also be something as simple as a couple of 2x6s clamped to a swim ladder...
 
  • Like
Reactions: AdamLein
#20 · (Edited)
Can't sail it home huh? I deliver broken sail boats all the time, it's a niche I've found in the delivery game, I bring a little out board and dinghy along to hip tow in and out of tight spots and sail it when I have the sea room. If there is wind I can sail, if not I hip tow. I hip towed a 32 foot Cal with a 2.5 nissan 10 miles in to an anchorage last year. Might be the way to go if you have a dock at home and the boat is 2 and half hours away, sounds like a 2 day sail and a short hip tow up a channel or something like that.
 
#22 ·
I am so sorry to hear this. Crushing, I'm sure.

Take a look at your survey agreement. They almost always exclude the motor or say something to the effect that they will note anything they notice, but suggest a mechanic look it over.

Take a deep breath and consider the plan. Is it insured? If not, I would probably rather fix it, than scrap it and start over. For one, scrapping it will be a huge pain. If she's insured and they'll give you your money back, its certainly not too late to find another.

The suggestion that the owner refund something is a stretch IMO. They may have had as little idea as you and you accepted her after having her surveyed. Not trying to rub it in, quite the opposite, just suggesting that the PO may not be a good direction, unless you really feel they pulled one over on you.

Again, we all feel for you right now. Lousy way to kick off the season.
 
#24 · (Edited)
If Keith hit something on delivery and that "caused" it then insurance should pick up damages.

The mouth of the Magothy (where the problem "suddenly" occurred) is indeed usually carpet bombed with crab pots, and a narrow channel through which debris flows. Perhaps a call to him and a detailed report on the circumstances of how and what happened is in order (hint hint).
Then a haul to prove it.

(Keith was Jim's delivery skipper)
 
#25 · (Edited)
The shaft misalignment didn't tear up the hull or present itself until the damping plate let go which was the final nail for the motor mounts as well. You're surveyor should have been able to say "these motor mounts are shot, and are prone to failure if stressed" so do get after him such as you can.

Last December in Nassau a guy let his former backstay (now a dink painter, made of Dyneema) wrap his prop up. It broke both cast motor mount brackets on the motor as well as his motor mounts and one fiberglass stringer that the mounts bolt through. This sat his motor down low enough where the shaft are up the shaft log etc and almost sank the boat. His barking dog below was his salvation- as it had him realize his floorboards were floating.

We were able to get the brackets rewelded- while we reglassed the stringer and made big backing plates for inside it on both sides. New mounts were ordered from the states. The shaft log was repaired with epoxy stick from the inside. The boat worked fine after.


Point is- frequently mechanical failures will have a dominoe effect- rather than a simple "weakest link revealing itself" effect. I wouldn't ever consider chain sawing a boat over this. Don't hate the surveyor because he didn't forsee the magnitude of the impending failure. He should have been able to warn against some aspects of it however. And yeah- should come off some money for you. A mechanical survey isn't neccssarrilly part of your marine survey however. As was alluded to a few posts back.

The other point is
All of this work can be done on the hook. Give chuckles back his slip- and make him drive you around to the parts dealers and hand you tools. Fix boat and go home. I've never had anything other than atomic 4s in a boat of my own- so believe me - I know exactly how demoralizing wrenching on an engine for days at a time- IN A SAILBOAT DAMNIT- can be. I will not tell you that it brings satisfaction when it's done the way installing a slick new traveler or self tailing winches etc is satisfying. I find I feel better about myself an my boat after replacing a flag halyard than I do after pulling an atomic four with my halyard and replacing the rings and bearings in it on the sole if my cabin. It sucks- but when it's over- you'll always remember to **** that motor down as soon as humanly possible- because you never know what's gonna go next... So you'll sail your ass off compared to people who think "motors in sailboats is fun!- it's easie than wind!"

If you want to chainsaw it- ill give you 500 usd toward an outboard and bracket to bring her to sav ga and do it here. I want a few parts, and I've never chainsawed a boat. I also think shooting one with a 12 gauge would be fun.


I think it's a bit premature however to kill her.
 
#26 ·
So sorry to hear this jimgo (& chuckles).
Chuck makes a convincing case that a crab pot line could have been the catalyst that caused most of your problems. If everything "suddenly" went to he11 then something caused it to occur. Your engine may have been just barely functional before the event but the damages went up your drive train, like a line of dominoes falling. Excessive force on the prop shaft from the wrong direction could do this.

Things may seem bleak now but do not throw in the towel just yet. Think of the positive things: Chuck & Mary have saved you storage fees for $$$45 days (great folks those two!), and now you know the weaknesses in your boat that need to be addressed. If you are new to the wrenching game the thought of doing these repairs yourself may seem daunting or insurmountable, but they are not. You can fix most of this yourself with some thought and consideration. You will also learn a he!! of a lot in the process.

I'd be looking for a relatively cheap diy yard I could haul the boat out in, then plan a few weekends you could go down and start repairing it.
- disconnect prop shaft coupling from output flange
- remove motor from mounts
- repair mounts
- bring shaft to prop shop, you might need a new shaft & coupling
- mechanic for damper plate or diy
- check Cutless bearing, shaft log hose and packing gland (all parts you needed to get familiar with anyway)
- reassemble and check shaft alignment

Still, it sucks that this happened when it did.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top