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post #31 of 44 Old 04-09-2013
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Re: North Sails Direct fiasco

So, since the thread has drifted a tad, let me chime in with some questions.
What other measurements are required, other than luff, leach, foot, for a main to fit
properly? Same question applies for a jib. I'm interested in purchasing used sails but there aren't that many Nor'sea 27 used sails on the market but there are plenty of used mains and jibs whose dimensions are close to my sail plan, (half foot or so shorter).

Nor'sea 27
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post #32 of 44 Old 04-09-2013
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Re: North Sails Direct fiasco

For something like a Nor'sea, you need to measure headstay sag under way for the size jib in question. If you have any mast bend, you need to measure that as well. Then you need to find a sail with a similar luff hollow.

The Nor'seas have a comparatively large amount of drag and do not point as high as a performance boat so you would not want a sail from something like a J-24, which would tend to be flatter cut and lighter cloth.


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post #33 of 44 Old 04-09-2013
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Re: North Sails Direct fiasco

"Uhm no... sails RETRACT in the outer perimeter, that's part of why they become deeper in shape when used."
Except, ail measurement for racing regulations is not a chord across empty space. it is measured along the surface of the sail. And if the sail has more depth, that is from the cloth stretching out, and the dimension as measured has increased. That's stretch, it is the same for all dacron sails. They get baggy, blow out, get more depth, because the measurement along the sail has increased.
I'm sure the sailmaker didn't lie to me about that.
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post #34 of 44 Old 04-10-2013
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Re: North Sails Direct fiasco

The friend who owns my old Catalina 25 bought two sails today for well under $400, and we had a chance to try them both out. One is a lightly used hank-on 150% genoa, the other is a "never used" storm jib. I don't know if the storm jib is truly new, but both are in very good shape.

The storm jib works great, it's hard to have those not transfer between boats well.

The genoa isn't as good as a new custom made sail would be, but it's really close. It's a deck sweeper with the foot sitting almost parallel to the deck when you have a moderate amount of draft. I think a custom made sail would be cut a little flatter, but this one is still performing pretty well. We know that the genoa came off of a 26' boat, it was likely a Columbia 26 which has almost the same jib rig setup.

This boat has 4 decent headsails (storm jib, working jib, genoa, asym spinnaker w/ sock), all purchased used at a total of under $1000. They were all lightly used to like new. Hard to argue with the function per dollar spent on that.

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post #35 of 44 Old 04-10-2013
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Re: North Sails Direct fiasco

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Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
In my mind, unless you own a boat which is a pretty strict one design, or you do not care how your sails fit, then its makes next to no sense to buy a used sail no matter how cheap it is. A well made sail is more than a simple white triangle. It is cut to the expected headstay sag, mast bend, hardware geometry, the characteristics of the boat such as its need for more drive or pointing ability. So even if you succeed in finding a sail with roughly the right luff, leech and foot length, its not so easy to buy a sail with the right geometry to work with your boat.

Jeff
If your main objective is to sail around bouy's faster than the other guy, then used sails won't do, this is true. If sailing is a fine tuned "sport" for you, and every nuance of sail shape is what drives you to sail, then no, used sails are not the way to go. You'll also want a hull that has put speed above saftey, something light weight in construction and you will want a light anchor so as not to slow you down. However, if sailing is a means of exploration and you want to safely get across the ocean to see whats on the other side, and your the kind of sailor who will purposely dump wind to slow down in order make the harbour entrance after sunrise in stead of 3 hours before, when the racer dude is raising his aysym. And If you are the kind of sailor who is reefing to lessen the strain on the rig and hull, when racer dude is heeling and yelling "yahoo, we are sailing now!", than used sails are the way to go. like I said, I bought a like new, double reefing main, a storm jib, a working jib that fits like a glove, a 135% genny that sits perfectly and a black yellow and red asymetrical in excellent conditon for 1400 bucks total! And I am sailing to Honduras with an affordable, good looking ,new to me, set of sails in less than a month. This left me money to buy a fancy new wind vane, a bigger better life raft, a g-pirb, a sat phone, the bigger solar pannel I wanted, a spot, new fouly's, a back up auto helm, all new blocks, main sheet, halyards, a vhf with ais, and a new gps. All which I would have done with out if I had gone for all new custom sails. Which I do want. I have sailed aprox. 15,000 miles of open water on just my little sloop alone, to as many as 10 different countries on good used sails, with no engine. Next I buy the new mast, then the engine, then I get the local sail loft to start sewing.

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Last edited by Capt.aaron; 04-10-2013 at 08:04 AM.
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post #36 of 44 Old 04-10-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: North Sails Direct fiasco

Just an update and an end to all this that I feel is only fair to share. Peter Colby The manager of North Sails phoned us up and apologized for this whole mess. He had not heard anything about it from the people that were supposed to be handling it. He looked into the situation and said it was totally a mismanagement of information on their part and has corrected the situation and has satisfied this customer beyond expectations. What Peter did is "customer service" the way it should be and all I wanted from North Sails Direct. He informed me that that is not their policy of how to handle this type of situation and is looking into it and will correct it. Peter, thank you again for your phone call, you put my faith back into North Sails and customer service as a whole.
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Re: North Sails Direct fiasco

It wasn't a used sail, it was a new one. But the situation has been resolved and is over. Thanks for any helpful input, all the other input should be posted on Facebook.
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post #38 of 44 Old 04-10-2013
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Re: North Sails Direct fiasco

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Originally Posted by DalesStar View Post
Just an update and an end to all this that I feel is only fair to share. Peter Colby The manager of North Sails phoned us up and apologized for this whole mess. He had not heard anything about it from the people that were supposed to be handling it. He looked into the situation and said it was totally a mismanagement of information on their part and has corrected the situation and has satisfied this customer beyond expectations. What Peter did is "customer service" the way it should be and all I wanted from North Sails Direct. He informed me that that is not their policy of how to handle this type of situation and is looking into it and will correct it. Peter, thank you again for your phone call, you put my faith back into North Sails and customer service as a whole.
That is good news! The final result is more in line with what I have come to expect from the big players like North and Quantum.

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Last edited by SchockT; 04-10-2013 at 12:42 PM.
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post #39 of 44 Old 04-10-2013
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Re: North Sails Direct fiasco

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Originally Posted by Capt.aaron View Post
If your main objective is to sail around bouy's faster than the other guy, then used sails won't do, this is true. If sailing is a fine tuned "sport" for you, and every nuance of sail shape is what drives you to sail, then no, used sails are not the way to go. You'll also want a hull that has put speed above saftey, something light weight in construction and you will want a light anchor so as not to slow you down. However, if sailing is a means of exploration and you want to safely get across the ocean to see whats on the other side, and your the kind of sailor who will purposely dump wind to slow down in order make the harbour entrance after sunrise in stead of 3 hours before, when the racer dude is raising his aysym. And If you are the kind of sailor who is reefing to lessen the strain on the rig and hull, when racer dude is heeling and yelling "yahoo, we are sailing now!", than used sails are the way to go. like I said, I bought a like new, double reefing main, a storm jib, a working jib that fits like a glove, a 135% genny that sits perfectly and a black yellow and red asymetrical in excellent conditon for 1400 bucks total! And I am sailing to Honduras with an affordable, good looking ,new to me, set of sails in less than a month. This left me money to buy a fancy new wind vane, a bigger better life raft, a g-pirb, a sat phone, the bigger solar pannel I wanted, a spot, new fouly's, a back up auto helm, all new blocks, main sheet, halyards, a vhf with ais, and a new gps. All which I would have done with out if I had gone for all new custom sails. Which I do want. I have sailed aprox. 15,000 miles of open water on just my little sloop alone, to as many as 10 different countries on good used sails, with no engine. Next I buy the new mast, then the engine, then I get the local sail loft to start sewing.
Wow! Aren't we feeling superior! You're right, performance sailors are just reckless yahoos sailing flimsy unsafe boats.

I agree with you that used sails that sort of fit are just fine for the average cruiser. The fact is, the majority of cruisers I encounter don't seem to care if their sails are trimmed correctly anyway, (or in some cases they just have no clue!) so why waste money on new sails?
The only new sail I have bought for my boat is the asymetric chute. Even my one "real" racing sail, a kevlar #1, was a used one off a different boat. It is far from perfect, but still good enough for beercan racing. Used sails are a valid option when you are on a budget. Not all of us can justify paying $500 to get our new $2000 headsail a few days faster!
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post #40 of 44 Old 04-10-2013
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Re: North Sails Direct fiasco

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.aaron View Post
If your main objective is to sail around bouy's faster than the other guy, then used sails won't do, this is true. If sailing is a fine tuned "sport" for you, and every nuance of sail shape is what drives you to sail, then no, used sails are not the way to go. You'll also want a hull that has put speed above saftey, something light weight in construction and you will want a light anchor so as not to slow you down. However, if sailing is a means of exploration and you want to safely get across the ocean to see whats on the other side, and your the kind of sailor who will purposely dump wind to slow down in order make the harbour entrance after sunrise in stead of 3 hours before, when the racer dude is raising his aysym. And If you are the kind of sailor who is reefing to lessen the strain on the rig and hull, when racer dude is heeling and yelling "yahoo, we are sailing now!", than used sails are the way to go. like I said, I bought a like new, double reefing main, a storm jib, a working jib that fits like a glove, a 135% genny that sits perfectly and a black yellow and red asymetrical in excellent conditon for 1400 bucks total! And I am sailing to Honduras with an affordable, good looking ,new to me, set of sails in less than a month. This left me money to buy a fancy new wind vane, a bigger better life raft, a g-pirb, a sat phone, the bigger solar pannel I wanted, a spot, new fouly's, a back up auto helm, all new blocks, main sheet, halyards, a vhf with ais, and a new gps. All which I would have done with out if I had gone for all new custom sails. Which I do want. I have sailed aprox. 15,000 miles of open water on just my little sloop alone, to as many as 10 different countries on good used sails, with no engine. Next I buy the new mast, then the engine, then I get the local sail loft to start sewing.
Boy do you have that wrong: if you are a cruiser who needs to beat off a leeshore, if you are a cruiser who does not want reef early or beat thier sails to death flogging them, if you are a cruiser who does not want to heel excessively, if you are a cruiser who does not want to wear out crew with excessive weather helm, or over power the windvane in a gust, or have to run the engine to charge the batteries because the autopilot is working harder, or do not want to replace sails prematurely because improper load mapping over stressed some corner of the sail, or it was made out of the wrong cloth, or you are a cruiser who does not want to have to motor as much because in order to get a sail which can deal with heavy air, you bought one that was too heavy for moderate conditions, then perhaps you might actually want to buy a sail that is designed for your boat.
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