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  #11  
Old 04-11-2013
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I did a quick Google and it looks like this boat was some kind of charter operation (pardon the translation from German):

This yacht, we offer training, cruises and regattas take part in the premium market! From exercising the harbor maneuvers, skipper training, driving instruction on sports travel trips to the Atlantic Regatta is our MERI Tuuli inside everything. We prove the MERI Tuuli max.6 with paying passengers plus 1 or 2 Skipper inside.

Might explain the pressure to get into port if the paying passengers were upset.

Rough outcome for sure. Kudos to the rescuers.
Smack, tears come to my eyes when I saw your post and had nothing to do with the post. You don't imagine how good for me it is seeing you back!!!

Yes I believe you are right. Unfortunately many of this accidents have to do with the pressure of the passengers or inexperienced crew over the Captain, assuming the Captain knew what he was doing. On these democratic days it is not easy or popular to act like a dictator and when everybody says to do the wrong thing it is hard to do the right thing against everybody specially if they are paying. I am not saying that it happened here, but it would not be the first time.

a big hug to you.

Paulo
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  #12  
Old 04-11-2013
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

Where I'm from, Morro Bay,we have a dangerous harbor entrance. Let's say that the biggest sets of waves are twenty feet. The smaller sets will be eight or ten feet. The eight or ten foot sets won't break across the harbor entrance because of the depth but the twenty footers will break all the way across. The big sets may be 15-30 minutes apart. You're approaching the entrance and you do the prudent thing, sit and watch for awhile. You sit there for 10, 15, 20 minutes and you don't see anything and you decide to go for it. Just then a big set comes along, rolling in at 20-30 knots. Your boat will only do seven or eight so you can't just follow a big one in and know that the one behind it won't catch you because it will. You get pounded.
Now I've been pounded by a 25 foot wave while surfing. Not much on your sailboat will survive and you will be slammed into hard things repeatedly. You'd be lucky to be thrown from the boat but then you're in twenty foot surf. If you don't know what to do or if you're hurt, you're dead.
That's why the bar is closed and that's why big fast power boats can make it and you can't, unless you're lucky.
How lucky are you?
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Old 04-11-2013
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Smack, tears come to my eyes when I saw your post and had nothing to do with the post. You don't imagine how good for me it is seeing you back!!!

Yes I believe you are right. Unfortunately many of this accidents have to do with the pressure of the passengers or inexperienced crew over the Captain, assuming the Captain knew what he was doing. On these democratic days it is not easy or popular to act like a dictator and when everybody says to do the wrong thing it is hard to do the right thing against everybody specially if they are paying. I am not saying that it happened here, but it would not be the first time.

a big hug to you.

Paulo
Thanks Paulo. It's good to be back around. This place makes me happy - precisely because of cool people like you. I appreciate the hug, but let's not hold it too long. People will talk.
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Old 04-11-2013
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

If the boat was not sinking, would it not have been better for them to stay on the boat, inside the cabin, waiting for it to settle down on the bar?
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Old 04-11-2013
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

Quote:
If the boat was not sinking, would it not have been better for them to stay on the boat, inside the cabin, waiting for it to settle down on the bar?
Hindsight is 20/20. Probably if they actually understood what the conditions where on the bar, they would have been willing to wait for days on the open ocean. I would imagine most boaters figure there will be a few minutes of excitement, then they will be home...

So then, how do you differentiate between what looks like it might be a wild ride, and something that is really dangerous?
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

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Originally Posted by Barquito View Post
Hindsight is 20/20. Probably if they actually understood what the conditions where on the bar, they would have been willing to wait for days on the open ocean. I would imagine most boaters figure there will be a few minutes of excitement, then they will be home...

So then, how do you differentiate between what looks like it might be a wild ride, and something that is really dangerous?
Well, there's this often under-appreciated thing known as 'Experience', that can often help one make such a decision.... (grin)

However, in this particular case, the fact that the bar had been closed by the port captain or coast guard, should have provided a pretty strong 'hint'...

It's been repeated here, and elsewhere, many times over - but it remains the most succinct and clear way of putting it:

"When is doubt, stay out..."
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Old 04-11-2013
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barquito View Post
Hindsight is 20/20. Probably if they actually understood what the conditions where on the bar, they would have been willing to wait for days on the open ocean. I would imagine most boaters figure there will be a few minutes of excitement, then they will be home...

So then, how do you differentiate between what looks like it might be a wild ride, and something that is really dangerous?
If it is the entrance of a bar with a port or marina inside, you ask to the port authorities what are the conditions and their advise. In this case they would have told them that the port was closed for anything smaller than a 100ft boat and would have indicated the next safe harbors.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 04-11-2013 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 04-11-2013
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barquito View Post
Hindsight is 20/20. Probably if they actually understood what the conditions where on the bar, they would have been willing to wait for days on the open ocean. I would imagine most boaters figure there will be a few minutes of excitement, then they will be home...
I was actually thinking about their decision to abandon the ship when they realized their boat was running aground. At least that is what I think they did - decided to get off when their boat got mauled by the surf.
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Old 04-11-2013
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

I don't think so. The reports said that there were some in the boat (2) and some in the water (3). I believe they were thrown to the water when the boat capsized and that was not near the beach but at the river bar.

Here you have the bar and the the beach. That is with nice weather:



With bad weather it is like this:



From far away it doesn't look too bad:

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Last edited by PCP; 04-11-2013 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 04-11-2013
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

We were off the Columbia Bar once (another infamous spot) during benign conditions and the USCG would only advise of conditions, not whether to attempt it or not. That was left to us to decide based on the description of the current conditions. I don't know if the USCG would actually issue a 'closed' edict wrt to the bar.. perhaps others more local would know.




I commend the Portuguese port authorities for that action (ie 'closing' the entrance to certain vessels) and would certainly expect that one would defy such warnings at your peril, obviously...
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