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post #41 of 76 Old 04-14-2013
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

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Originally Posted by MastUndSchotbruch View Post
Pilot books, as well as charts etc are freely (meaning no charge) available from NOAA for whatever areas they cover. And that is how it should be. Obviously, this is very USA-centric.

Perhaps sailors and mariners in other countries should try to get their governments to adopt a similar model. We would all gain from it.
Very true indeed!

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A bad day on a boat beats a good day in the office
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post #42 of 76 Old 04-14-2013
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

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Originally Posted by MastUndSchotbruch View Post
Pilot books, as well as charts etc are freely (meaning no charge) available from NOAA for whatever areas they cover. And that is how it should be. Obviously, this is very USA-centric.

Perhaps sailors and mariners in other countries should try to get their governments to adopt a similar model. We would all gain from it.
SAILING DIRECTIONS (ENROUTE) are available from the NGA for the entire world, as free downloads:

Maritime Safety Information



All the Pilot Books in the world wouldn't have made any difference in this incident, of course... Nor with RULE 62, or the delivery crew rescued off Hatteras last month, nor countless other examples of poor judgment/seamanship born of an overwhelming desire to simply get off the damn boat, and avoid any further discomfort...
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post #43 of 76 Old 04-14-2013
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

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Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
SAILING DIRECTIONS (ENROUTE) are available from the NGA for the entire world, as free downloads:
I didn't know that, and I'm sure there are many, many other folks out there that don't either. Thanks Jon!

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Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
All the Pilot Books in the world wouldn't have made any difference in this incident, of course... Nor with RULE 62, or the delivery crew rescued off Hatteras last month, nor countless other examples of poor judgment/seamanship born of an overwhelming desire to simply get off the damn boat, and avoid any further discomfort...

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A bad day on a boat beats a good day in the office
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post #44 of 76 Old 04-15-2013
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post

Yesterday the life boat from Peniche went out to respond to a mayday. The time as disagreeable but not threatening and today is a nice day. The saillboat in question had 9/10m and had a engine problem. I saw photos of the boat and its sails were intact and apparently without any problem. The conditions permitted the life saving boat to tow them to Port. Why the hell did they not sail to Port? Probably another ones that did not want to pass a disagreeable night at sea
I operate a tow boat buisness in the baltic

80% of our tows are Sailboats with some Kind of engine trouble, but intact sails...


René
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post #45 of 76 Old 04-15-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

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Ok.. At least something exists for you I guess. I presume the "Meri Tuuli" had a copy on board? IMHO, GBP42.50 is a bit steep for a single stretch of coastline, especially if it is only valid for a year or so. Everyone has a copy? Wow!! Presuming that somebody cruising that part of the globe would also need something for Northern Europe, UK and the Med, plus charts, that's a significant amount of money to spend every year or so.

.....
Around here there is so much to see that a cruiser remains probably around the stretch of a coast covered by a book for a year so. So in fact you need one book each year assuming you don't stay several years around the same cruising ground.

For instance , last year I cruised for 3 months, coming back from Trieste (North of Italy) I have done the coast of Slovenia, Croatia (where a year is not enough to explore their 2000 Islands), and Adriatic Italy. All this comes in one book alone.

This year I intend to cruise Greece and their hundreds of Islands and all that comes in another book, one that I am using on the last two months to prepare the voyage (475 pages). cruising is expensive as it is expensive to having a cruising boat. 50 euros a year for a pilot book is nothing and that's way everybody has them (figuratively speaking).

When I say everyone has them I am talking about practical experience and exchanging talks with crews of boats passing these waters. They are not actualized annually (the one that you buy now is the 6th edition) but even older have much of the information correct and in what regards Figueira da Foz conditions did not change on the last 15 years or so.

I have about 6 or 7 of those pilot books and more went on my previous boat when I sold it. The stretch of coast is not small (All Atlantic Portugal and Spain) and it is a big book with a very detailed information about everything you can imagine, including anchorages and nice places to stop, meteorology and so on. My wife would refuse to sail without one because I stay in anchor almost all the time and she wants assurances that it is a safe place (and some that look like are not)

They are not expensive for the information they provide and the money you can save with them. The price is the average price of a marina in Europe and those books have all information you need to find all the places where you can anchor safely. One night at anchor will pay the book.

Imray nautical charts and nautical books from Imray, Admiralty Charts and pilots for sailing navigation from Imray, Laurie, Norie & Wilson Ltd www.imray.com

Regards

Paulo


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post #46 of 76 Old 04-15-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

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I operate a tow boat buisness in the baltic

80% of our tows are Sailboats with some Kind of engine trouble, but intact sails...


René
Well, welcome to sailnet

Regards

Paulo


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post #47 of 76 Old 04-15-2013
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

One Question

did the police boat capsize on the way back to the harbor or while making the safety/standby boat while the lifeboat tried to establish the tow?

Ok A Second one.... what were they thinking 3 or 4 h after high tie trying to tow the 44 footer with an 8 or 9m Rib? Next good time slot was at least 14h away.... The X was already a CTL at this point
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post #48 of 76 Old 04-15-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

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Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
SAILING DIRECTIONS (ENROUTE) are available from the NGA for the entire world, as free downloads:

Maritime Safety Information



....
Jon what is given for free from the NGA is a pilot book intended for ships, not a cruising guide. It is nice to have it for free and it has valuable information. All that information is om a pilot book for cruisers along with much more information that is needed and valuable to a small Yacht. Ports, marinas and anchorages that are suitable for a small cruising boat has nothing to do with the ones that are suitable for a ship, even a small one.

What is covered in 20 pages on that book is covered on 400 pages on a pilot book for cruising boats. That's about the difference in the scope of the information.

Regarding cruising boats "World Cruising and Sailing Wiki - A Free Cruising Guide" has more valuable information, also for free. Most of them is taken from those cruising guides, many times with the same words, other is posted by cruisers.

World Cruising and Sailing Wiki - a Cruising Guide on the World Cruising and Sailing Wiki


Regards

Paulo


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Last edited by PCP; 04-15-2013 at 07:19 AM.
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post #49 of 76 Old 04-15-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

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One Question

did the police boat capsize on the way back to the harbor or while making the safety/standby boat while the lifeboat tried to establish the tow?

Ok A Second one.... what were they thinking 3 or 4 h after high tie trying to tow the 44 footer with an 8 or 9m Rib? Next good time slot was at least 14h away.... The X was already a CTL at this point
They capsized after having rescued some of the crew (the others were on the other life saving boat) while attempting to establish a tow.

Yes, I guess you are right about the second one. that's what you get when you put well intentioned amateurs (they were Navy but without training in rescues, only the other boat had a professional crew) doing the job of professionals. Probably the skipper asked them to try to save the boat towing it to deeper water where the boat could stay on anchor and they didn't want to look like they didn't care at least without attempting it.

I guess this makes the so called experienced skipper look even worse. it's first concern should be to have his crew safe, not having it exposed to more danger while they tried a dangerous tow operation to save the boat. The woman that died (sailboat crew) and the navy operator were inside the RIB that was attempting to tow the sailing-boat.

Regards

Paulo


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post #50 of 76 Old 04-15-2013
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

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They capsized after having rescued some of the crew (the others were on the other life saving boat) while attempting to establish a tow.
Ok, so the capsized police boat tried to establish the tow. Right?

I´ve searched the net to get some pics of the setup of the two RIbs involved.

So far it looks as if none had a real tow post or was in other means setup up for towing in a safe manner...


btw I don´t want to looks as a smart ass here, just trying to find infos what happened for educational purposes.

Did my fair share of thumb things as a lifeguard too
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