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  #51  
Old 04-15-2013
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Jon what is given for free from the NGA is a pilot book intended for ships, not a cruising guide. It is nice to have it for free and it has valuable information. All that information is om a pilot book for cruisers along with much more information that is needed and valuable to a small Yacht. Ports, marinas and anchorages that are suitable for a small cruising boat has nothing to do with the ones that are suitable for a ship, even a small one.

What is covered in 20 pages on that book is covered on 400 pages on a pilot book for cruising boats. That's about the difference in the scope of the information.

Regarding cruising boats "World Cruising and Sailing Wiki - A Free Cruising Guide" has more valuable information, also for free. Most of them is taken from those cruising guides, many times with the same words, other is posted by cruisers.

World Cruising and Sailing Wiki - a Cruising Guide on the World Cruising and Sailing Wiki


Regards

Paulo
No, of course they are not a substitute for a true cruising guide, I wasn't trying to suggest that...

However, for places off the beaten track, these volumes can still be surprisingly useful... the Sailing Directions for Greenland, for example, seems practically the equal of Willy Ker's Imray/RCC Pilot... I've been browsing through mine for Labrador lately, there's still a wealth of information there for a small boat sailor that might not be readily available elsewhere - especially at that price... (grin)
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  #52  
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

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Originally Posted by divefreak View Post
Ok, so the capsized police boat tried to establish the tow. Right?

I´ve searched the net to get some pics of the setup of the two RIbs involved.

So far it looks as if none had a real tow post or was in other means setup up for towing in a safe manner...


btw I don´t want to looks as a smart ass here, just trying to find infos what happened for educational purposes.

Did my fair share of thumb things as a lifeguard too
No, the RIB was a standard Maritime police rib. The guys did not even had life-vests. If they had probably that Navy police will be still alive.

They were trying to do that at the Portuguese way, "desenracando-se" as well as they could. O desenrascanço is a true institution on the Portuguese culture and means an wild improvisation

We are quite good at that, we have centuries of years of experience mostly because one way or another had never the means to do things in a more conventional way but that was never an obstacle to go on. Well, sometimes it does nor work and it seems it was the case

I don't know how they were going to try to do it, or if they head any chances of success because they did not reach that point. The Police boat was cached by a big have when it was circling the sailboat trying to put themselves in position. The boat pitch poled.

Regards

Paulo
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

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They were trying to do that at the Portuguese way, "desenracando-se" as well as they could. O desenrascanço is a true institution on the Portuguese culture and means an wild improvisation
Ok I know what you´re talking about

I was at Beja in 98 during Strong Resolve

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The Police boat was cached by a big have when it was circling the sailboat trying to put themselves in position. The boat pitch poled.
Thanks forthe Info Paolo!
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Old 04-18-2013
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

Just to prove bar crossing incidents in bad weather aren't restricted to Portugal - in today's news:

Australian River Bar yacht drama: five beached including rescuers

..but I can guarantee you the rescuers would all have been wearing their standard-issue life-vests...
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Last edited by Classic30; 04-18-2013 at 02:17 AM.
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

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Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
Just to prove bar crossing incidents in bad weather aren't restricted to Portugal - in today's news:

Australian River Bar yacht drama: five beached including rescuers

..but I can guarantee you the rescuers would all have been wearing their standard-issue life-vests...
The drama began about 1am when the Marine Rescue was called to help a vessel struggling to get across the river bar. The Marine Rescue crew tried twice to attach a tow-rope to the yacht, but each time the ropes got tangled in the vessel's propellers.

'Both boats were dragged out around the wall with the outgoing tide, and there was no time for the crew to do anything,' Marine Rescue NSW regional coordinator Stephen Reading told the local news outlet. 'They got hit by a couple of big waves and they were on the rocks.'

Mr Reading said the Marine Rescue crew and two crew from the stricken vessel were thrown into the water when the rescue boat flipped over. One of the yacht crew were caught in the air pocket under the boat. The jet boat was then called out about 2am to rescue the two crews.

At that point, the seas were running at between two metres and three metres, making it difficult to spot the yacht, the marine rescue boat, which was, by then, about two kilometres off shore, or the flashing beacons on the crew members' life jackets.

'It was only luck we found them upside down,' Mr Cummings said. ...

THE CREW of the Ballina Marine Rescue boat that capsized while coming to the aid of the yacht in distress have been nominated for bravery awards.


Sail-World.com : Australian River Bar yacht drama: five beached including rescuers

Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes not.

But I am a bit surprised. After all, those life savers tried to rescue a sailboat in dicey circumstances (the first Marine rescue boat) instead of picking up the sailcoat's crew and getting the hell out of there, the safest option. And they have tried not once but two times two time without success ending up to capsize their boat and put all in deadly risk. I also supposed that proper marine rescue boats would not remain turtle. What was that, a 10m RIB

In the end they were not subject to an inquiry (as you sujest in the Portuguese case) to see why they have managed to endanger the lives of all in a crazy boat rescue attempt instead of saving the sailboat's crew lives as they supposed to do. More they were nominated for bravery.

Of course I am being ironic regarding what you said regarding the other rescue, where a life of a rescuer was lost while attempting to do exactly what they tried to do here. Just to remember, I mean this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
Paulo, what I don't understand is, if the boat was in the breaking zone and heading for the beach, why on earth did two (not one - but two!) rescue boats head out in 5 metre breakers to get them? Apart from "hero" status, what were they hoping to achieve?? Surely all the rescuers needed to do was to wait on the beach and tell the people on board to don lifejackets??

.....what I don't understand is the rescuers sending two boats out into conditions where one of their own people died to save people off a yacht that crossed a closed bar against the advice of the same authorities...

If that happened over here, there would be a major coronial inquest and people in authority would be reprimanded for mis-managing the situation! I can only assume (from the other side of the world and based solely on Paulo's posts) that the rescue authorities mis-judged how bad the conditions were.

.. As I said, if something like that happened over here there would be a major enquiry into the management of the incident to understand what went wrong. Perhaps the RIB was not a suitable rescue vessel for the conditions?!? I do not know..
..
It seems to me that the main difference between the two rescue operations was luck, or lack of it.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 04-18-2013 at 06:58 AM.
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

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[COLOR="Blue"][B]


It seems to me that the main difference between the two rescue operations was luck, or lack of it.

Regards

Paulo
Or, could it be that the main difference was that the Australian rescuers wore PFDs and the Portuguese did not? You suggested yourself that the drowned rescuer would likely be alive had he worn a lifevest.

It is beyond my understanding how ANYONE can go out in a difficult situation without wearing a PFD. You said that these were not trained rescuers but 'just' navy. I can tell you from my personal experience in the navy that whoever would have ordered, or allowed, personnel to go out in such circumstances without PFDs would have been in big, big trouble. If someone got killed, we are talking courtmarshaling.

And rightfully so.
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

Who said he had not a PFD? I said they had not a complete water proof life vest not a a PFD. They had PFDs aw well as all the crew members. That didn't prevent two from dying, probably unconscious after the boat capsized. I don't know if a Live vest would have increased their chances. The fact is that they did not have them, as rescuers normally have.
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

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Who said he had not a PFD? I said they had not a complete water proof life vest not a a PFD. They had PFDs aw well as all the crew members. That didn't prevent two from dying, probably unconscious after the boat capsized. I don't know if a Live vest would have increased their chances. The fact is that they did not have them, as rescuers normally have.
OK, I am confused. You said in an earlier posting the rescuers did not wear life vests which is the common (non-technical) term for PFD, personal flotation device.

When you say life vest, do you mean immersion suit?
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

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OK, I am confused. You said in an earlier posting the rescuers did not wear life vests which is the common (non-technical) term for PFD, personal flotation device.

When you say life vest, do you mean immersion suit?
Yes, sorry about my bad English

Regards

Paulo
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

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Yes, sorry about my bad English

Regards

Paulo
MUCH better than my Portuguese
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