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  #61  
Old 04-18-2013
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Immersion suits make a big difference in the cold atlantic waters!
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  #62  
Old 04-18-2013
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
But I am a bit surprised. After all, those life savers tried to rescue a sailboat in dicey circumstances (the first Marine rescue boat) instead of picking up the sailcoat's crew and getting the hell out of there, the safest option. And they have tried not once but two times two time without success ending up to capsize their boat and put all in deadly risk. I also supposed that proper marine rescue boats would not remain turtle. What was that, a 10m RIB

In the end they were not subject to an inquiry (as you sujest in the Portuguese case) to see why they have managed to endanger the lives of all in a crazy boat rescue attempt instead of saving the sailboat's crew lives as they supposed to do. More they were nominated for bravery.
Over here at least, public inquiries come when people die doing their job, but just because they've been nominated for bravery (ie. they got away with doing something crazy without killing themselves in the process) does not mean there won't be some kind of internal inquiry by AMSA and actions that come out of that for the next time this sort of thing happens.

You can be sure the decisions of the guy in charge will be questioned ("why the hell didn't you just pick up the sailboat's crew and get the hell out of there??") and maybe they'll get a more suitable rescue boat like you guys use.

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It seems to me that the main difference between the two rescue operations was luck, or lack of it.
Perhaps.. or equipment? or training?? I would not know, just sitting back in my arm-chair like you are, Paulo.

...but of course you are right, these people were very lucky this time. The sea does not take prisoners.
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Last edited by Classic30; 04-18-2013 at 07:17 PM.
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  #63  
Old 04-18-2013
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

A passing thought on all of this:

Could it be that we have so many ocean bars over here that I am taking for granted that sailors and marine rescue crossing them know what to do and what not to do? You have so many fine anchorages and sailing grounds in Western Europe: Is it possible that the crew of the Meri Tuuli did not understand the dangers of 'closed harbours' and 'bar entrances'??
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Last edited by Classic30; 04-18-2013 at 07:27 PM.
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  #64  
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
A passing thought on all of this:

Could it be that we have so many ocean bars over here that I am taking for granted that sailors and marine rescue crossing them know what to do and what not to do? You have so many fine anchorages and sailing grounds in Western Europe: Is it possible that the crew of the Meri Tuuli did not understand the dangers of 'closed harbours' and 'bar entrances'??
Probably a kind of explanation, Europe is as Paulo wrote a very diverse cruising ground (and large).

The dangerous bars come from a combination of weather and geography (under water shape and depths).
Portugal sits on the west of Europe with the open Atlantic with long stretches to build waves and the rapidly shallowing towards the coast and the bars combined with rivers pushing water out.

Compare this with my country Norway. The western part of the country see similar weather but the geography is different. We have deep fjords and islands giving us more harbors (natural and man made) that is relatively easy to access.

We do have some ares that can be dangerous during bad weather - but it's not as bad as in Portugal. (described in the Norwegian Pilot)

The Norwegian "Sřrlandet" region (south east on the map) is even more sheltered.

And then we have Mediterranean, Skagerak, Kategat and Baltic (++) all areas with different conditions.

What I'm trying to say is that getting information on local conditions is important. And it's dangerous to view a large region (for instance Europe or Norway) as one "type" of water.
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  #65  
Old 04-18-2013
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
A passing thought on all of this:

Could it be that we have so many ocean bars over here that I am taking for granted that sailors and marine rescue crossing them know what to do and what not to do? You have so many fine anchorages and sailing grounds in Western Europe: Is it possible that the crew of the Meri Tuuli did not understand the dangers of 'closed harbours' and 'bar entrances'??
You mean like this Aussie knows?



Seriously I don't know, we surely understand that. I can only remember one accident with a Portuguese sailboat and many with foreigner boats. Our west coast) is an open one without few natural shelters and some dangerous bars but also with good ports that remain open with bad weather. I guess you are right, sailors that come from other coats with more shelters (The North of Spain is a lot better and the Med has not any comparison) are used to sail for the day, or even not for a full day and stop for the night. That is not always possible here, at least with not settled weather.

What makes me wonder is that on the last two deadly accidents the skippers were described as very experienced. It seems that experience does not always provide a reasonable dose of caution.

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Old 04-19-2013
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

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Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
You can be sure the decisions of the guy in charge will be questioned ("why the hell didn't you just pick up the sailboat's crew and get the hell out of there??") and maybe they'll get a more suitable rescue boat like you guys use.



Perhaps.. or equipment? or training?? I would not know, just sitting back in my arm-chair like you are, Paulo.
Hi

Lifeboat/Rescueboat Design is a since of its own

I discussed the australian philosophies with Pete from mid coast marine, he´s well known in the IRB /Surfrescue scene.

I´ll never understand why cat boats are used in the surf! Inshore, on lakes or on the baltic, yes. They make a nice an stable work platform. But on a Barr/ in the surf, no way i would go out in such a boat!

Give me a rigid hull inflatable, or a conventional deep V hull. with a self rightening Frame or pilothouse and I´ll be happy

The RNLI Boats are nice or our aluminium Boats, but they are too slow IMHO, but very very safe. On the other Hand even on our 27m ships they had deadly accidents in the north sea.
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  #67  
Old 04-19-2013
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  #68  
Old 04-19-2013
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

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I´ll never understand why cat boats are used in the surf! Inshore, on lakes or on the baltic, yes. They make a nice an stable work platform. But on a Barr/ in the surf, no way i would go out in such a boat!
Actually if you watch the video posted by PCP immediately above your post, you'll see exactly why cat boats are used in surf.

..but that doesn't mean they are the best platform by any means. I am honestly not at all sure what is, but then I don't claim to be an expert on the subject either.
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  #69  
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

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Originally Posted by divefreak View Post
Hi

Lifeboat/Rescueboat Design is a since of its own

I discussed the australian philosophies with Pete from mid coast marine, he´s well known in the IRB /Surfrescue scene.

I´ll never understand why cat boats are used in the surf! Inshore, on lakes or on the baltic, yes. They make a nice an stable work platform. But on a Barr/ in the surf, no way i would go out in such a boat!

Give me a rigid hull inflatable, or a conventional deep V hull. with a self rightening Frame or pilothouse and I´ll be happy

The RNLI Boats are nice or our aluminium Boats, but they are too slow IMHO, but very very safe. On the other Hand even on our 27m ships they had deadly accidents in the north sea.
Here for coastal operations they use RIBs (more usually), proper ones not the Navy one that was involved or small self rightening rescue boats. Near the beach or in the Surf they use also helicopters and Jet skys. On that rescue, a jet sky was also there (they use them to reach the victims faster and to carry them to the bigger boats) and an helicopter.





Regards

Paulo
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Old 04-19-2013
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Re: Bad yacht accident: two dead (one rescuer)

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Here for coastal operations they use RIBs (more usually), proper ones not the Navy one that was involved or small self rightening rescue boats.


Looks like an old german boat or at least the same design



very very good boats but a bit slow

the Rib is also nice!

but currently our DGzRS is loosing ground by switching the smaller boats for sternheavy crappy designed Copys of the KNRM Ribs....
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Last edited by divefreak; 04-19-2013 at 07:34 AM.
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