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post #31 of 56 Old 04-15-2013
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Re: Dousing a cruising asym without blowing the tack?

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Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
I've used a tacker, have not for a couple of years, been using a spin pole in place of.
Could you explain your spinnaker pole setup with the asym? Do you rig and use it just like you would with a symmetrical?

I actually picked up a cheap spinnaker pole to play with at the Fisheries Swap on Saturday. It's from an Olson 30, so it is 6" too long to be legal for my Pearson 28-2, but it is close enough to learn off of (and shorten if I end up using it for racing).

Every time that I've used the beads my lazy sheet (and often the tack line) has been trapped by them.

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Re: Dousing a cruising asym without blowing the tack?

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Not sure I understand that. If I am dousing on the opposite tack I need to remember to pass the dousing line around the forestay.
Jack--Perhaps I was unclear. I was referring to the small snatch block through which the up haul-down haul line for the sock passes. As you seem to note, above, if you launch the sail on a port tack and subsequently gybe to starboard and then wish to douse, the up-down haul line will still be on the port side of the head stay. Without freeing the snatch block from the deck, passing it and the up- down haul line around the forestay and re-attaching the snatch block to the deck, when you douse you'd be trying to haul the sock down over the head stay.

In our case, since the asymmetric is about 1300 square feet, that could be problem-some. On the OP's Hunter 25, it likely would matter much and, frankly, for a sail that small, one likely wouldn't need a sock although it would certainly be more convenient.

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Re: Dousing a cruising asym without blowing the tack?

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Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
I've used a tacker, have not for a couple of years, been using a spin pole in place of. BUT, I usually have a race crew of 3-5 on board the boat to set this up. THis actually works better than a tacker IMHO. Especially if you want some serious dead down wind runs. Pull the tack to the opposite side of the main, that whole BIG side of the AS is now showing full bore to the wind. WOrks pretty well, THis can be set up with two, probably putting up like one would an SS......

Marty
Agreed, I've never understood why so many assume an asymetrical cannot be flown from a pole, or carried DDW...

Works just fine, in my experience... And, when sailing deep downwind in a seaway, the chute will be FAR more stable and less prone to oscillation when tacked to a pole, than if simply tacked to the stem or headstay on the boat's centerline...

Yeah, I know, the pole should be level... (grin) It started out that way on this day, but as the breeze and seas began to build, I had to strap it down a bit...

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post #34 of 56 Old 04-15-2013
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Re: Dousing a cruising asym without blowing the tack?

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Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Agreed, I've never understood why so many assume an asymetrical cannot be flown from a pole, or carried DDW...

Works just fine, in my experience... And, when sailing deep downwind in a seaway, the chute will be FAR more stable and less prone to oscillation when tacked to a pole, than if simply tacked to the stem or headstay on the boat's centerline...

Yeah, I know, the pole should be level... (grin) It started out that way on this day, but as the breeze and seas began to build, I had to strap it down a bit...

Your chute looks good, and if you are on a long reaching leg that setup is great. Where the conventional pole setup fails is in situations where you need to gybe. That is when it becomes a royal PITA! Sure it can be done, but it is less than ideal. If you are going to run the pole you might as well fly a symetrical kite.

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Re: Dousing a cruising asym without blowing the tack?

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Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Agreed, I've never understood why so many assume an asymetrical cannot be flown from a pole, or carried DDW...

Works just fine, in my experience... And, when sailing deep downwind in a seaway, the chute will be FAR more stable and less prone to oscillation when tacked to a pole, than if simply tacked to the stem or headstay on the boat's centerline...

Yeah, I know, the pole should be level... (grin) It started out that way on this day, but as the breeze and seas began to build, I had to strap it down a bit...

Jon--You might want to add a reaching strut to the after-guy in that shot. That life-line stanchion amidships will be glad you did by the look of it.

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Re: Dousing a cruising asym without blowing the tack?

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Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
Jon--You might want to add a reaching strut to the after-guy in that shot. That life-line stanchion amidships will be glad you did by the look of it.
Or just move the tweaker block forward so it is slightly aft of the stancheon.

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post #37 of 56 Old 04-15-2013
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Re: Dousing a cruising asym without blowing the tack?

Alex,

Generally speaking I use the pole like a sym. At least I think from the few times I have been on boats that use symetrics. Also locally, you can go about 9-10" too long fromthe J measure and not get penalized the three seconds extra a mile. At least from the excell sheet I have from my clubs rater. My pole is also about 2-4" too long, ie 12' vs 11.8'.

Gybing is a bit of a challenge if you will. For long stretches open ocean sailing, an AS on a pole is faster than a sym. Bouy racing, shorter stretches, a sym is easier to use etc. As one has to bring the pole to center, release it, I outside gybe the AS, then rehook up the pole and then pull it out off center. A few more steps involved vs a Sym. For local racing the distances we have here on puget sound etc. personally I feel a sym is the better option. Then ifyou have an older boat that was designed for a Sym vs AS< they also seem to work better.

BUT< with that said.......an AS is a good sail to have in a bag onboard either way. As one can sail a bit tighter upwind vs a sym in lighter wind days etc. Even tho I am 10% small vs a full code 5 spin, ie a code 2 or 3 with a 9 sec credit, I can in many cases use this sail to my advantage vs a 155. A full sized code 5 maybe a 6 AS is in the cards some day!

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Re: Dousing a cruising asym without blowing the tack?

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Originally Posted by jsaronson View Post
If you run the tack line thruough A block you can release the tack line It is close to blowing the guy.
This is an invaluable setup ++1
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Re: Dousing a cruising asym without blowing the tack?

No comments from Jackdale on this Note no Main up, which I enjoy doing when I am confident on the weather prediction. I find I can go 180 without a main with Asym.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Agreed, I've never understood why so many assume an asymetrical cannot be flown from a pole, or carried DDW...

Works just fine, in my experience... And, when sailing deep downwind in a seaway, the chute will be FAR more stable and less prone to oscillation when tacked to a pole, than if simply tacked to the stem or headstay on the boat's centerline...

Yeah, I know, the pole should be level... (grin) It started out that way on this day, but as the breeze and seas began to build, I had to strap it down a bit...

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Re: Dousing a cruising asym without blowing the tack?

I mostly use the Pearson for cruising double handed, where the asym with no pole is the easiest setup. Asym on the pole could be interesting to try for the rare occasions when we have more crew and are racing.

It's interesting how differently this same cut sail can behave on my Pearson vs the Catalina. On the Catalina we've used it to sail from 90 to 160 degrees successfully and without major issues. It is also quicker for us to set and put away with the hank-on tack vs the strap going around roller furling (and jybing is easier).

On my Pearson it seems to like a narrower wind range of maybe 95 to 140 degrees or so. If you go too far downwind it oscillates and is difficult to trim. I wonder if this is due to relative sail sizes on the two boats. The Catalina carries more of it's sail area in the jib, while the jib and main are more balanced on the Pearson. This means that the main is relatively closer to the asym on the Pearson than the Catalina, and might be shading more of it.

It'll be interesting to try the pole with the asym to see if getting the sail projected out a little farther forward will help us when sailing deeper. Only if we can figure that out, how to jybe it efficiently, and get faster at setting the asym spinnaker on the Pearson would we consider flying it in races.

This has been one of the more informative threads for me on sailnet.

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