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  #21  
Old 04-15-2013
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Re: Restoring those plastic sink cover cutting board things...

Dave, I've got a couple of thick high density old fashioned cutting boards that refuse to come clean, even with bleach overnight. I figure, if bleach overnight won't make them cleaner...whatever the problem is, probably isn't something that can contaminate my food. I suppose that if I were ambitious I would try concentrated acid (muratic?) to clean them, but at that point a new cutting board probably would be cheaper and safer.

chef-
I've heard so many times that wood cutting boards are actually SAFER than plastic, because the wood absorbs moisture, which dries out bacteria and ruptures their cell walls, killing them more effectively than any cleaning of plastic boards would.
Has everyone been lying to me again? Or are things just different for you, with boards that are in use for many hours in a row with no opportunity to suck the moisture out?
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Old 04-15-2013
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Re: Restoring those plastic sink cover cutting board things...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PorFin View Post
Now, I've heard of crew "living like pigs" and "acting like pigs," but I've never seen actual pigs as crew doing galley chores...



Sorry, Dave, I couldn't resist
See that even passed spell check...LMAO
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  #23  
Old 04-15-2013
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Re: Restoring those plastic sink cover cutting board things...

Ok so what you are saying is its ok to leave food and bacteria on a cutting board that the sap ( what a ridiculous analogy) will kill the bacteria.


Shawn so how do you clean a wood cutting board on the boat. No varnish on it right? Oil. ? Do you think most boaters clean the boars the right way?

Shawn, Does the culinary school you teach in use wooden or does it use
plastic cutting boards.? I would assume wood right?

Dave
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Last edited by chef2sail; 04-15-2013 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 04-15-2013
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Re: Restoring those plastic sink cover cutting board things...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Or are things just different for you, with boards that are in use for many hours in a row with no opportunity to suck the moisture out?
I'll give this a go. regardless of the material,( wood or plastic) bacteria multiply over time, given the right temperature and conditions. In a commercial kitchen, ( or at home) best practice dictates that any food contact surface like a cutting board in "constant" use for 4 hours should be changed out washed, rinsed, sanitized and allowed to air dry. This would also include, knives, gloves if worn, counters, slicers etc.
Basically, one should be breaking their work station down within that time frame. and re-set. Plastic has no special ability that allows it to be in constant use for a longer time frame without intermediate cleaning and sanitizing, nor does wood.
if someone is cutting up chickens for 5 or 6 hours on the same board they're playing with fire. Growth is exponential. Even produce can be problematic. Cross contamination is another topic..
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  #25  
Old 04-16-2013
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Re: Restoring those plastic sink cover cutting board things...

As a certified Serv Safe Instructor and Protor ( I think T37chef is also) we are responsible for teaching as well as proctoring the food safety and national sanitation course recognized by the FDA with respect to the USDA Food Code.

In addition I am a certified HACCP inspector and instructor for the USDA which certifies facilities which handle food in the industry such as food processing plants, restaurants, airplanes, super markets etc. I have trained many of the county Health Inspectors in DC, South Jersey and other areas,

Food safety and sanitation is not complicated and is based on scientific principals of bacterial growth, bacterial intoxication and poisons. proper safety procedures, HACCP principals. etc. HACCP was forst developed to allow the astronauts to go into space in a safe food environment so they would get sick while in orbit from the food or sanitation.

It is not overly complicated. Without the cross contamination issue its important to wash, rinse, and sanitize ( either heat or chemical) food surface contact equipment to insure minimal bacterial growth. In addition is important to put barriers in place to minimize bacterial growth. The barriers include food, time, temperature, oxygen, moisture and acidity. There are specific cook temps for proteins as well as holding temps etc.

The requirements of a food contact surface or utensil is that it is wash rinsed and sanitized between tasks as well as no longer than 4 hours. That's a long time though. And also that is the total time the food equipment is allowed in the temperature danger zone of 41 degrees to 135 degrees, In addition it needs to be made of a material which is easily washed rinsed and sanitized and doesn't have cracks, porous surface for food debris to remain trapped so as to satisfy one of the requirements for bacteria to multiply....food.

Also should be noted that it isn't always the bacteria which gets a person sick, but can also be the toxin the bacteria produces. So you can kill the bacteria with proper heat principals, but the toxin may remain to sicken individuals.

Most people get food poisoning a mild case about 5 times a year and attribute the diherrea or upset stomach to a 24 hour virus. Most healthy adults can handle bacteria in their system, but infants, elderly and those with compromised immunities can die from food borne illness.

Most boats are not equipped to really wash rinse and sanitize properly cutting boards, utensils, pots and pans etc. The sinks alone do not fit the cutting boards for instance to adequately. The two types of sanitization is heat ( rinse temp of 180 degrees in a dishwasher or chemical. Usually this involves a quaternary solution at a specific ph sprayed and air dried on the piece of equipment. Vinegar can be effective in the CORRECT concentration of 1 part 5% vinegar to 4 parts water.

The reason most restaurants are required to use plastic cutting boards is that the ease of running a cutting board through a 180 degree rinse dish machine has been found to be more effectively done correctly than wiping down other food contact equipment with quaternary or vinegar.
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  #26  
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Re: Restoring those plastic sink cover cutting board things...

Dave, that's a great summary.

I didn't want to get too far into the woods (pun intended). You can add me to your list of SS instructor/proctors, We seem to have many of the same credentials. I also teach the Food Marketing Institute's course called SafeMark, which many supermarkets seem to prefer over ServSafe. Both are recognized by the conference for food protection. There's little difference in the two really. Both are based on the FDA Food Code. I wear a number of hats, the above I do as part of the " Extension" mission of the University I work for. Typical clients are Supermarkets like Shoprite, Quick Check, Hospitals etc. I also certify the students I teach in regular undergraduate courses during the school year as part of their coursework. Prior to that much of my career before I ( sort of ) retired was spent designing and building large commercial foodservice operations. Though, I've built a few smaller places like Dunkin Donuts, Pizzarias, delis etc.
Prior to switching gears, I used to wear one of those white hats..graduated from the CIA etc. in my yute..and put my time in kitchens. I just found that I loved the design and construction aspect; partly inspired by one of my CIA instructors. I still play in some test kitchens, and occasionally like this past January get to teach a class. But I mostly cook for my pleasure now and hopefully that of my guests. The nice thing about being semi-retired is that I get do a variety of things like teach safe-boating classes etc. And go sailing more often.

That said, I don't have the aversion to wood boards that you seem to have provided they are properly maintained. I use both on the boat and at home. Given the link I provided earlier to the UCDavis study, there might be some evidence to support wood over plastic on boats and in homes. Though, one study is not definitive. It may be interesting to see if one of the graduate or Phd students in our food micro-lab would be willing to take on a similar study. One is doing his Thesis on Handwashing, with some surprising findings.

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Old 04-16-2013
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Dave you're missing the point...while I understand and would advocate that in a commercial kitchen one should use plastic, washing and sanitizing properly...BUT for the home cook/boater I am advocating that a wooden cutting board is a better choice in my opinion, additionally I have provided other resources, most notable is the UC Davis study, which supports my opinion about the use of wooden cutting boards.

Once again, I am not advocating the use of wood in commercial kitchens, but on a boat (or home) where moisture is more likely the use if wooden boards is safer.
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in addition, your question whether or not boater actually wash and sanitize their cutting boards on a boat is EXACTLEY the reason I would advocate the use of wood due to it ability to absorb water and dry, therefore leaving a unsustianable area for bacteria growth.

To each their own, different perspectives and thoughts, up to the individual to make an educated decision. I will continue to use wood cutting boards at home and on the boat
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Old 04-16-2013
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Re: Restoring those plastic sink cover cutting board things...

the regulations were made for the commercial kitchens for a reason--eateries were filthy. home kitchens were much cleaner, still are, btw.....
whatever you decide to do , make sure the thing doesnt fly out of the sink when you are in pitching seas. could be important.

weekly disinfecting of the board never hurt anyone....rinse thoroughly when done..lol..i wash mine in sea water and rinse with vinegar and let dry. aint dead yet.
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Old 04-16-2013
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Re: Restoring those plastic sink cover cutting board things...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
Dave, that's a great summary.

I didn't want to get too far into the woods (pun intended). You can add me to your list of SS instructor/proctors, We seem to have many of the same credentials. I also teach the Food Marketing Institute's course called SafeMark, which many supermarkets seem to prefer over ServSafe. Both are recognized by the conference for food protection. There's little difference in the two really. Both are based on the FDA Food Code. I wear a number of hats, the above I do as part of the " Extension" mission of the University I work for. Typical clients are Supermarkets like Shoprite, Quick Check, Hospitals etc. I also certify the students I teach in regular undergraduate courses during the school year as part of their coursework. Prior to that much of my career before I ( sort of ) retired was spent designing and building large commercial foodservice operations. Though, I've built a few smaller places like Dunkin Donuts, Pizzarias, delis etc.
Prior to switching gears, I used to wear one of those white hats..graduated from the CIA etc. in my yute..and put my time in kitchens. I just found that I loved the design and construction aspect; partly inspired by one of my CIA instructors. I still play in some test kitchens, and occasionally like this past January get to teach a class. But I mostly cook for my pleasure now and hopefully that of my guests. The nice thing about being semi-retired is that I get do a variety of things like teach safe-boating classes etc. And go sailing more often.

That said, I don't have the aversion to wood boards that you seem to have provided they are properly maintained. I use both on the boat and at home. Given the link I provided earlier to the UCDavis study, there might be some evidence to support wood over plastic on boats and in homes. Though, one study is not definitive. It may be interesting to see if one of the graduate or Phd students in our food micro-lab would be willing to take on a similar study. One is doing his Thesis on Handwashing, with some surprising findings.

Regards,
Hopefully we get a chance to get together this year when we come north. I think it will be sometime near August 18 when we are oing to be at Atlantic Highlands on the way up to the LISound.

How is the recovery going?
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