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  #51  
Old 04-16-2013
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Re: Restoring those plastic sink cover cutting board things...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TQA View Post
Don't have a router or easy access to one, I do have a jigsaw so back to my question.

What kind of blade should I use. Fine or coarse?
What??? you want to stay on topic??

I'd say a finer tooth blade, maybe even a metal cutting hacksaw style. You're likely to get some melting anyway, and the coarse saw marks are harder to clean up. I've cut similar stuff on a tablesaw and tried to 'iron out' the kerf marks but didn't really have any luck with that. A fine cheese-grate type rasp might do a decent job of post-cut cleanup.

Don't forget to disinfect the blade before cutting the raw meat template...
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Last edited by Faster; 04-16-2013 at 06:19 PM.
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Old 04-16-2013
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Re: Restoring those plastic sink cover cutting board things...

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Originally Posted by Faster View Post
What??? you want to stay on topic??

I'd say a finer tooth blade, maybe even a metal cutting hacksaw style. You're likely to get some melting anyway, and the coarse saw marks are harder to clean up. I've cut similar stuff on a tablesaw and tried to 'iron out' the kerf marks but didn't really have any luck with that. A fine cheese-grate type rasp might do a decent job of post-cut cleanup.

Don't forget to disinfect the blade before cutting the raw meat template...
Touche
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Old 04-17-2013
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Re: Restoring those plastic sink cover cutting board things...

I find it cheaper/easier/mo'sanitary to use disposable (?) sheet cutting surfaces. I picked up a set of three for a couple bux at Wally World for camping years ago. Work like a charm and when they get too cut up/scored...toss 'em. No worry 'bout germs or making "fuzzy" cuts on nylon boards.
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Old 04-17-2013
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Re: Restoring those plastic sink cover cutting board things...

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Eggs

USDA Code

Why should eggs be refrigerated?
Temperature fluctuation is critical to safety. With the concern about Salmonella, eggs gathered from laying hens should be refrigerated as soon as possible. After eggs are refrigerated, they need to stay that way. A cold egg left out at room temperature can sweat, facilitating the movement of bacteria into the egg and increasing the growth of bacteria. Refrigerated eggs should not be left out more than 2 hours.
Shell Eggs from Farm to Table | USDA Food Safety and Inspection Service
How are eggs transported safely to stores?

The U.S. Department of Commerce's 1990 Sanitary Food Transportation Act requires that vehicles be dedicated to transporting food only. On August 27, 1999, FSIS made effective a rule requiring:
Shell eggs packed for consumers be stored and transported under refrigeration at an ambient (surrounding) air temperature not to exceed 45° F;
All packed shell eggs be labeled with a statement that refrigeration is required; and
Any shell eggs imported into the United States, packed for consumer use, include a certification that they have been stored and transported at an ambient temperature of no greater than 45° F.
Egg Safety Center
Jeanne Socrates currently in the Tasman sea on day 178 of her engineless circumnavigation ate the last of her eggs a few days ago. Stored without refrigeration.
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Old 04-17-2013
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Re: Restoring those plastic sink cover cutting board things...

It's also a good idea to have a cutting board that is used exclusively for meat and another that is just for fruits and vegetables. This way there is little chance of getting bacteria from meat on your salad.

In Brazil eggs are never sold refrigerated. I keep mine on the boat out of the fridge and have never had a problem with bad eggs. I believe that if you turn them over once or twice a week they can keep for months. A lot of things we refridgerate today our grandparents keep out of the fridge (beer notwithstanding!).
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Old 04-17-2013
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Re: Restoring those plastic sink cover cutting board things...

you folks cutting anything with serrated bladed knives--those horrid things carry more plague and disruption than do the cutting boards you so defile--and they destroy the plastic cutting boards--you folk shave a solution for your troubles--ditch those damnable unusable serrated blades and go for real knives. those dirt and plagues holding blades were dreamed up by some idjit who didnt want to sharpen his knife blades daily, as we used to have to do with GOOD knives....serrations do not make clean cuts nor do they clean properly when washed.
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Old 04-17-2013
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Re: Restoring those plastic sink cover cutting board things...

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Shawn so how do you clean a wood cutting board on the boat. No varnish on it right? Oil. ? Do you think most boaters clean the boars the right way?
Not to speak for Shawn, but I clean my boars by tying a line around a hind leg and dragging them behind the boat. *grin*

For wooden cutting boards I have a different protocol.

First I have clearly different bits for heavy cleaning (sponges, boiled and dried or replaced periodically), counter cleaning (rags and towels), and drying (rags and towels). At sea, drying towels become cleaning towels after a couple of days.

Second I maintain different cutting surfaces for meat and veg. I use a half-sheet pan as a cofferdam over the veg board on my cooker to place the meat board on. I grouse about the extra cleaning after a meal but that's the way it goes.

Third, even on delivery I carry a squirt bottle to put diluted vinegar in. As noted bacteria grow exponentially. After cleaning cutting surfaces with soap and hot water and wiping water off (not necessarily completely dry) I spray with the vinegar solution and let dry.

Even on delivery with a good size crew I don't have production cooking to do. There is plenty of time for cutting boards to dry before next use.

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
I have found very few people understand how to handle food or clean and sanitize properly at home. Very few know cook o, reheat temps to kill bacteria. Most cool down or thaw improperly. Lots of cross contamination issues. People do crazy things like leave opened peanut butter and butter unrefrigerated. Cool pots of soup on the counter. Don't date or follow dates of food in the reefer. Most don't use gloves when preparing foods. Most don't wash clean and sanitize when preparing or using cutting boards through the process of switching tasks.
I can't compete with others in this thread for certifications. I do have a background in science and engineering and can think and consider issues in a structured fashion. I've also worked in government long enough to know that sometimes regulation is based on perception as much as science.

I don't cook with gloves on.

I do sail with an insertion thermometer (actually three on my own boat, one on delivery).

I do cool things on the stove top or in the sink. I can't afford the amp-hours by sticking something hot in the fridge to cool, and don't want to risk raising the temperature in there of other items. Leftovers have to be brought back to temp; that deals with bacteria but as noted not the potential toxins. That is Russian roulette. That no one has gotten sick on my watch is not relevant. The numbers aren't big enough to be statistically significant.

Most dates on food are "best if used by" dates for flavor not "you'll die if you eat this after" dates.

On board with limited cooled space I keep eggs in the bilge or low storage. I keep peanut butter in a locker. Butter is in the cooler or reefer if I don't have a butter bell. I get mayonnaise (when I don't make it from scratch) and mustard in squeeze bottles to avoid contamination from utensils (I'd get peanut butter the same way if I could find it). Same with ketchup.

The problem with squeeze bottles is contribution to the waste stream in places that don't support recycling. It pains me. Still life is a compromise.

In no way should anything I describe be considered as being offered as "the answer." I'm not qualified to make such statements. I am simply an engineer who loves to cook and does my research. I have made my own risk management decisions applied to the environment on a boat.

I will say that on delivery the boats I move always get turned back to the owner with much cleaner galleys than when I took possession. *grin*
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  #58  
Old 04-17-2013
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Re: Restoring those plastic sink cover cutting board things...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVAuspicious View Post
For wooden cutting boards I have a different protocol.

First I have clearly different bits for heavy cleaning (sponges, boiled and dried or replaced periodically), counter cleaning (rags and towels), and drying (rags and towels). At sea, drying towels become cleaning towels after a couple of days.

Third, even on delivery I carry a squirt bottle to put diluted vinegar in. As noted bacteria grow exponentially. After cleaning cutting surfaces with soap and hot water and wiping water off (not necessarily completely dry) I spray with the vinegar solution and let dry.

Even on delivery with a good size crew I don't have production cooking to do. There is plenty of time for cutting boards to dry before next use.

I can't compete with others in this thread for certifications. I do have a background in science and engineering and can think and consider issues in a structured fashion. I've also worked in government long enough to know that sometimes regulation is based on perception as much as science.

I don't cook with gloves on.

I do sail with an insertion thermometer (actually three on my own boat, one on delivery).

I do cool things on the stove top or in the sink. I can't afford the amp-hours by sticking something hot in the fridge to cool, and don't want to risk raising the temperature in there of other items. Leftovers have to be brought back to temp; that deals with bacteria but as noted not the potential toxins. That is Russian roulette. That no one has gotten sick on my watch is not relevant. The numbers aren't big enough to be statistically significant.

Most dates on food are "best if used by" dates for flavor not "you'll die if you eat this after" dates.

On board with limited cooled space I keep eggs in the bilge or low storage. I keep peanut butter in a locker. Butter is in the cooler or reefer if I don't have a butter bell. I get mayonnaise (when I don't make it from scratch) and mustard in squeeze bottles to avoid contamination from utensils (I'd get peanut butter the same way if I could find it). Same with ketchup.

The problem with squeeze bottles is contribution to the waste stream in places that don't support recycling. It pains me. Still life is a compromise.

In no way should anything I describe be considered as being offered as "the answer." I'm not qualified to make such statements. I am simply an engineer who loves to cook and does my research. I have made my own risk management decisions applied to the environment on a boat.

I will say that on delivery the boats I move always get turned back to the owner with much cleaner galleys than when I took possession. *grin*
Lots of good practices by you. Vinegar sanitation, two cutting boards, squeeze bottles and you obviously pay attention to sanitation and food borne illness issues which is most of the battle here.

Suggest you buy a small ice paddle to place in hot foods to cool quickly before placing in the refrigerator.

Placing food in the reefer ( BTW that's not recommended practice as it brings up the reefer temp up for the stuff stored in it). A better technique is an ice water bath, surrounding by water, or the ice paddle I mentioned.

Reheats are all supposed to be brought to 165 degrees for 15 secs.to kill bacyeria

Dates on foods are sometimes use by/ or in case of dairy sell by dates. I was referring to dates on prepared food items you make and have as leftovers. I have a three day rule.

Quote:
I've also worked in government long enough to know that sometimes regulation is based on perception as much as science.
While this is true most Food Code requirements are based on science fact and real life occurrences and the need for consumer protection in an changing environment

100 years ago 75% of people grew and canned their own food and didn't depend on others. In todays world 3% feeds 100% in the US allow us to spend our time as scientists, accountants, boat delivery specialists, chefs etc. instead of fighting for our daily food. This dependence on others requires due diligence to insure the food chain is kept safe. One mistake in grinding meat for instance contaminates 500 million lbs. of hamburger recalls,
In this was born the science behind safe food handling

I have tried to bring to light the strictest of standards which are developed for an industry which people eat foods prepared for many sometimes with pre prep methods, and that they can easily be applied to the average household or boat.

Dave you employ many of these techniques and obviously have food safety ( and quality) in the forefront of your mind. Many don't that's why I have posted the industry "rules" here.

I am sure when most people posting on here eat in a restaurants you hope they are following the rules I have posted and wouldn't want them to be cavalier about which ones they chose to use and I also believe most of you hope they are inspected by a health inspector with a defined set of standards borne from scientific and industry standards. You hope they wear gloves when appropriate and you hope they store, cook and serve foods within the rules. And most important they wash their hands a lot.

I realize everyone is an expert in their own mind about food because they all think they know how to cook or do cook....and I mean everybody.

Its no different that anyone else posting from their expertise areas. We all can plot courses and follow our own charts, but we hear from marine professionals is good. Their advice is not to be taken as gospel either. God gave us all brains and the power to choose.


Getting sick on a passage far away from medical attention because you ate bacteria laden food you failed to handle properly could be more than dihherea and a stomach ache
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  #59  
Old 04-17-2013
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Re: Restoring those plastic sink cover cutting board things...

"I am sure when most people posting on here eat in a restaurants you hope they"
Restaurants are theater and as they teach in Theater101, theater only works when the theatergoers have "willing suspension of disbelief". My grandfather was in the food business and he'd point out that every restaurant owner ate "across the street" because he knew what went on in his own kitchen.
I did have the pleasure of eating in a south american steakhouse two years ago, chosen because a tv nooze show talking about food inspections pointed them out "for consistantly having zero violations every year since they opened" as an example to prove it CAN be done. Two months later...it closed and became a Korean BBQ. Damfino, the steak was fine.

But my Inuit friend Nunquiuk says you fellas must have one wicked sense of humor, everyone knows there's no such thing as an "ice paddle". When the kayak gets into solid ice, you stop paddling and walk! Maybe you mean one of those freon-filled ice cream scoopers or something like that? (He's been getting free drinks at the bar all night long, telling people about the funny sailors with the ice paddles.)
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Old 04-17-2013
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Re: Restoring those plastic sink cover cutting board things...

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"I am sure when most people posting on here eat in a restaurants you hope they"
Restaurants are theater and as they teach in Theater101, theater only works when the theatergoers have "willing suspension of disbelief". My grandfather was in the food business and he'd point out that every restaurant owner ate "across the street" because he knew what went on in his own kitchen.
Not too many people think of drinking Inuits as knowing much about restaurants.

Too bad you feel that way. That's quite an insult to those who make their profession in the restaurant industry as creative artists with food and the magic they can create using it.

Obviously your grandfather wasn't very proud of what he did for a living. Its a shame to have a profession you don't enjoy or don't feel proud of

Some people/ cultures have no appreciation for food, its qualities and its potential. Europeans in general I have found place more emphasis on food in their culture. They still have the patisserie, the charcuterie and many quality ingredients and appreciate dining whether its a simple meal or fine dining. Whether its beer production or wine production. Food maintains prominence in the family life there.

As a large generalization many Americans and Canadians just eat because they have to and have little appreciation for the food they eat. It really shows in the amount of processed food, fast food that they consume. This doesn't mean that all do this, but as a rule they care less about the food they eat and more about the quantity. That's why your comment doesn't surprise me.

You would be hard pressed to find as many world renown chefs from Canada or even the US although the US number has been growing in the last 25 years..

Here are home examples of the professional ice paddles restaurants use to drive down the temp of a 6 gallon pot of soup to cool it quickly through the temperature danger zone so they don't put boiling soup in a cooler at a temp which could breed bacteria.

Vollrath 7024 - Chiller Wand w/ Tethered Cap & Side Handle, Wide M

http://www.publichealthmdc.com/envir...afeCooling.pdf
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