Why a racer for cruising discussion... - Page 14 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree53Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #131  
Old 04-26-2013
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,160
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: Why a racer for cruising discussion...

It was you that dismissed the importance of stability curves in modern Yacht design and remembered the old day where they were not used. For what you have said It seemed you did not consider them important in modern boat design. I am referring to this post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
You guys and your graphs. Do you really understand how inadequate a 2D graph like that is compared to the dynamic forces of the sea. But if it amuses you then play on. I'm not sure this is the right environment for me.
...
Do me a favor, go back and determine how many designs from the S&S office had full stability studies done. Surpirse! Now do it for Phil Rhodes office. Surpise! All this preoccupation with numbers is a function of the computer age and the ability to use some bozos program to get some numbers.

I did a full stability study of the Valiant 40 about a year after production had begun. I did it because people wanted to know. ..

Silly people. Scared yet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
..
For the record:
Of course the modern design offices all do stability studies. We all use computers now andf all it takes is the push of a button. I love it when Paulo lectures me on how a yacht design office works. Usually these days we do multiple stability studies as we evaluate different keels and draft options.

I am glad you consider them an important tool, as everybody else.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post

For the record:
Paulo's claim that you can use all that volume aft in the flat, wide stern racer type hull for cruising gear is not valid. You cannot put a 100 gallon fuel tank in the stern of one of those boats without bad trim problems. However, in a heavier boat, say a D/L arpound 275 you may have volume below the cabin sole in the keel cavity to install a 100 gal. fuel tank amidships where it will not hurt anything while actually helping to lower your VCG.
Regarding inspired hulls from Open solo racer being used by several Major NAs and many sailors for voyage boats that is a fact.

The existence of a fact does not deserve discussion but the why and how is the relevant issue.

I understand why and how those hull, designed by several major NAs for the purpose of fast voyage boats work in what regards sailing potential, load and characteristics.

Since it is a fact they are used and that has to do with the advantages they offer to the sailors that choose them for voyaging I respectfully suggest you try to understand how they are used for voyaging (because they are) and how they can carry the needed load (because they can) that the ones that use them considers necessary.

Regarding carrying heavy loads on the back of the transom, everybody knows that is not indicated and should be avoided. I never said that. I said that those boats have a large transom and all the beam pushed back. That means that in comparison with a narrow boat, or a boat with the max beam at the middle and a tiny transom, the back cabins are comparatively huge. The back cabin is not the transom and in there are plenty of storage space away from the transom. Anyway, not all needed things to cruise are heavy and even the extra space near the back of the transom can come handy for the storage of light but voluminous stuff.

Regarding water and fuel we can ask Eric but I think that they are carried at the center of the boat. Almost all that voyage in those boat uses hydrogenerators, similar to the ones racing boats use. The produce 500w at 7K (if I am not mistaken) and on the trade winds 7K is a very low average speed for these boats.

They are very light and sail with very little wind so the quantity of fuel they have to carry is very small. Regarding water they use normally a watermaker but even so the water tankage of a Pogo 12.50 is 200l, the one from a Cigale 14 is 500L and the one from a RM 1260 is 400l. All of them can take more tankage as an option.

You seem to forget that there are some that prefer to voyage in small boats like Contessa or westsail and those have normally not a watermaker and an inferior or equal water tankage regarding the boats I am talking about.

But Bob, the important point here is : They exist, they have been used successfully used as fast voyage boats for many years, their number has always been increasing and they are the right voyage boats for many among the ones that like fast boats.

Saying that they cannot exist because they cannot carry the needed load does not make sense, since they exist they are increasing in numbers, they are designed and used for voyaging and obviously satisfy those that own and use them for that purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
For the record: I think Paulo and I have the same taste in boats.
I like to sail fast.
If you like only one type of boat I am sorry to disappoint you but that that is not true because I like many types of different boats and some of them are not even fast, like old traditional boats. If I could I would have a collection, just for fun and to suit my mood.

Yes in what regards cruising I like fast boats but the one that I have chosen is the one adequate (for me) to do the cruise I do, that involves a lot of variable winds and lots of upwind sailing.

If I went for a circumnavigation or went for extensive voyaging on the trade winds, then if I could I would pick a Cigale or RM and then we would not agree in the boats we like anymore.

It I went for cruising in high latitudes, I would pick a Boreal that has also the hull shape based on Open solo racers and then again we would not agree on the type of boat we like.

It seems to me that I like the boats you like but you don’t like all the boats I like.


I will not be able to continue this agreeable discussion (insults apart, of course). I am on the limit of time to prepare my annual 4 months of cruising and I will restrict my participation to some posts on the interesting sailboat thread.

Best regards

Paulo
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by PCP; 04-26-2013 at 11:56 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #132  
Old 04-26-2013
hellosailor's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,364
Thanks: 1
Thanked 72 Times in 70 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
Re: Why a racer for cruising discussion...

Brian-
Next time you go to Sears, ask for the 2013 Special Tools Catalog. You'll have to present ID and sign for it, they won't mail them out. Turn to page 45, check out the freeze-dried screwdrivers. They take up much less space than the old-fashioned kind. You can fit a full dozen of them in a number ten envelope. (VBG)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #133  
Old 04-26-2013
Cruisingdad's Avatar
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Mobile Liveaboards
Posts: 9,894
Thanks: 3
Thanked 97 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough
Re: Why a racer for cruising discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Brian-
Next time you go to Sears, ask for the 2013 Special Tools Catalog. You'll have to present ID and sign for it, they won't mail them out. Turn to page 45, check out the freeze-dried screwdrivers. They take up much less space than the old-fashioned kind. You can fit a full dozen of them in a number ten envelope. (VBG)
Actually I watched one of the kids cartoons and I realize I need a Shrink Ray.

Brian
__________________
Sailnet Adminstrator & Moderator
Catalina 400 Technical Editor

2004 Catalina 400, Sea Mist IV (our boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in S FL and Keys primarily)
1987 Tayana Vancouver 42, Credendo Vides, (Mom and Pops boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in Puget Sound)

My Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow My Blog at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow me on Facebook:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #134  
Old 04-26-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,374
Thanks: 0
Thanked 112 Times in 100 Posts
Rep Power: 4
JonEisberg will become famous soon enough
Re: Why a racer for cruising discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
That's all I have to say about that.

I have to take my dog to the groomer today. That means from 8:30 am until noon I am going to be in a very bad mood. I don't like to be without my dog.
sorry, Bob - but at the risk of making you any grumpier today... (grin)

Looks like someone made a big Boo-Boo with one of your favorite babies...



This pic is from a friend living aboard in Brunswick, GA... The other day this boat was towed into the yard at Brunswick Landing... Story seems to be, that the guy was headed up the ICW, and went astray, and hit a bridge with a clearance lower than the 65' fixed bridge clearance on the Ditch (My guess is he went up the Back River instead of the Mackay River inside St. Simons Sound, there's a bridge with a 40' clearance up there)

I couldn't help but notice from Dave's blog, that the boat is sporting a full-cockpit bimini... (grin) And, why people feel the need to carry so many jerry jugs of diesel to motor up and down the ICW never ceases to amaze...

OK, someone mentioned your Saga 43, which I've always thought was one of your coolest designs... When I was in Newfoundland a few years ago, this one was one of the four other cruising boats I saw during my cruise, I had a wonderful evening aboard her alongside me in Francois...

So, hopefully this will make you feel better... Those boats get around, and her owners were absolutely in love with her...


Last edited by JonEisberg; 04-26-2013 at 12:53 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #135  
Old 04-26-2013
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,514
Thanks: 1
Thanked 70 Times in 66 Posts
Rep Power: 4
bobperry will become famous soon enough
Re: Why a racer for cruising discussion...

Jon:
No you have it wrong.
That is the folding sprit version designed to reduce the cost of marina fees.

I guess it speaks well to the strength of the headstay.
Looks like you are still having way too good a time.
A buddy of mine out here just bought a Saga 48. He loves it.
Faster likes this.
__________________
Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Bob's Blog ....


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #136  
Old 04-26-2013
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,514
Thanks: 1
Thanked 70 Times in 66 Posts
Rep Power: 4
bobperry will become famous soon enough
Re: Why a racer for cruising discussion...

Brian:
When I desiged my latest "perfect boat for Bob" I made sure I had dedicated guitar stowage space. Guitars are hard to stow, pilot berths work great, and I refuse to play a mini-guitar.
__________________
Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Bob's Blog ....


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #137  
Old 04-26-2013
Cruisingdad's Avatar
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Mobile Liveaboards
Posts: 9,894
Thanks: 3
Thanked 97 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough
Re: Why a racer for cruising discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Brian:
When I desiged my latest "perfect boat for Bob" I made sure I had dedicated guitar stowage space. Guitars are hard to stow, pilot berths work great, and I refuse to play a mini-guitar.
Well, I designed a Redneck guitar storage space: I put two eye hooks into the bulkhead and a piece of line to hold it down... snicker... BEAT THAT!! And if I had put those eyes on a racer-cruiser, the boat would have split down the middle, pulled the dock down with it, created a tidal wave, and lives would have been lost!!! See! Never take a guitar on a Racer-cruiser! You need a Catalina for that!

You do sail a Catalina, don't ya Bob??

Brian
__________________
Sailnet Adminstrator & Moderator
Catalina 400 Technical Editor

2004 Catalina 400, Sea Mist IV (our boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in S FL and Keys primarily)
1987 Tayana Vancouver 42, Credendo Vides, (Mom and Pops boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in Puget Sound)

My Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow My Blog at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow me on Facebook:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #138  
Old 04-26-2013
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,514
Thanks: 1
Thanked 70 Times in 66 Posts
Rep Power: 4
bobperry will become famous soon enough
Re: Why a racer for cruising discussion...

Brian:
Not anymore but I owned a Catalina 27 when I first met my wife.
__________________
Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Bob's Blog ....


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #139  
Old 04-26-2013
Cruisingdad's Avatar
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Mobile Liveaboards
Posts: 9,894
Thanks: 3
Thanked 97 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough
Re: Why a racer for cruising discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Brian:
Not anymore but I owned a Catalina 27 when I first met my wife.
Ha! Fair enough. I was just joking you, btw.

Brian
__________________
Sailnet Adminstrator & Moderator
Catalina 400 Technical Editor

2004 Catalina 400, Sea Mist IV (our boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in S FL and Keys primarily)
1987 Tayana Vancouver 42, Credendo Vides, (Mom and Pops boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in Puget Sound)

My Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow My Blog at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow me on Facebook:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #140  
Old 04-26-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: new england
Posts: 1,598
Thanks: 31
Thanked 24 Times in 21 Posts
Rep Power: 2
outbound is on a distinguished road
Re: Why a racer for cruising discussion...

Brian- it's nice to hear from someone that's been there done that. Reading your posts ( and some others) is an education.
__________________
s/v Hippocampus
Outbound 46
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Discussion of the Philosophies of Cruising and Circumnavigating Cruisingdad Boat Review and Purchase Forum 158 04-21-2013 11:19 PM
General discussion MarioG Endeavour 51 03-03-2013 09:45 AM
Additives ( a discussion) deniseO30 Diesel 10 05-27-2012 07:05 AM
Is cruising only for my parents? sorry, posted this one is general discussion too Newport41 Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 68 01-24-2007 12:25 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:34 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012