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post #61 of 238 Old 04-19-2013
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Re: Why a racer for cruising discussion...

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That's about what I was sayng

Regards

Paulo
I said it in a few less words! LOL

At the end of the day tho, any of these boats work IF the owner buyer likes the look feel etc of the boat.

The real question becomes, how much sheet are folks going to take along? if a lot, then a heavier disp larger payload boat for a given length is going to be needed, OR, as I kinda sorta joked, but was also serious about brian needing a 40M boat vs a 40ft boat, one needs to go longer, so that one can stay in an area that might be on the true lighter disp end of things, so the boat feels lively etc. Both boats at the end of the day may disp say 40K lbs, but a longer one will be faster more lively etc than the shorter one of the same wt!

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I drives me dinghy!
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post #62 of 238 Old 04-19-2013
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Re: Why a racer for cruising discussion...

A few questions for CD.

Now that you are cruising with a full load, how has it affected the performance?

Have you raised your water line?

If you plan on making longer passages, Across the Pacific, how will you store the mountain of food your crew will require?

What changes would you make for further long distance voyaging?


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post #63 of 238 Old 04-22-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Why a racer for cruising discussion...

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Originally Posted by aeventyr60 View Post
A few questions for CD.

Now that you are cruising with a full load, how has it affected the performance?

Have you raised your water line?

If you plan on making longer passages, Across the Pacific, how will you store the mountain of food your crew will require?

What changes would you make for further long distance voyaging?
Sorry for the late reply to these. We had company this week and they just left.

Ok, here goes:

We have been living aboard and cruising (or modififed cruising depending on your definition), for many years now. We have taken some time off here and there, but this is not our first time living aboard, or being mobile live aboards. As such, the day we bought the boat, I had them raise the waterline three inches. We have never gotten close to that waterline, and it may have been an overkill, as even fully loaded, the top of the paint is a couple inches high.

My performance loss is kind of odd since we now are aboard FT with no address or even a dock box (this means that things we might have left in storage or in a dock box or in a car, we now take with us). I would estimate we lose about a knot in 15 kts. However, we can still get to or over hull speed, but it takes more wind (maybe 20 kts). I was motor sailing Saturday, and was were running about 8 kts, with 8.3 the high. We waived at RTB (a member here) as we sailed by him and his wife. So, I can still get pretty good speeds, but it takes more 'power' from wind or motor. Another interesting change is how we motor. I assume this is because of the higher displacement, but whereas before, I could slow the boat down quickly with the motor (like coming into a slip), I have to plan ahead a lot more now. SHe doesn't stop on a dime anymore, if that makes sense?

As it stands, we have enough food for about a month on the boat. THis assumes no outside food. That is about how we stay stocked. We stay stocked that way not because we have to or spends months at far away anchorages, but because we like a variety of things to eat on the boat and a trip to the grocery store is a real PITA (we do not have a car). We try to make frequent trips to keep her stocked up because that way I can haul the canned goods in small amounts on the bike, backpack, or cart. If you wait a week+, then the amount you need to get to restock is a lot more, more weight, and probably will cost a cab.

If we are major conservative, on the hook, we can run about two weeks on water. THis is a periodic shower and conservative clothes washing and dish washing. We can all shower conservatively, every day, for a bit over a week on what we carry comfortably. SO to cross the Atlantic or Pacific, which I have no interest in at this point, we would buy a watermaker.

I think that answered all your questions?

Brian

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post #64 of 238 Old 04-22-2013
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Re: Why a racer for cruising discussion...

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Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
Sorry for the late reply to these. We had company this week and they just left.

Ok, here goes:

We have been living aboard and cruising (or modififed cruising depending on your definition), for many years now. We have taken some time off here and there, but this is not our first time living aboard, or being mobile live aboards. As such, the day we bought the boat, I had them raise the waterline three inches. We have never gotten close to that waterline, and it may have been an overkill, as even fully loaded, the top of the paint is a couple inches high.

My performance loss is kind of odd since we now are aboard FT with no address or even a dock box (this means that things we might have left in storage or in a dock box or in a car, we now take with us). I would estimate we lose about a knot in 15 kts. However, we can still get to or over hull speed, but it takes more wind (maybe 20 kts). I was motor sailing Saturday, and was were running about 8 kts, with 8.3 the high. We waived at RTB (a member here) as we sailed by him and his wife. So, I can still get pretty good speeds, but it takes more 'power' from wind or motor. Another interesting change is how we motor. I assume this is because of the higher displacement, but whereas before, I could slow the boat down quickly with the motor (like coming into a slip), I have to plan ahead a lot more now. SHe doesn't stop on a dime anymore, if that makes sense?

As it stands, we have enough food for about a month on the boat. THis assumes no outside food. That is about how we stay stocked. We stay stocked that way not because we have to or spends months at far away anchorages, but because we like a variety of things to eat on the boat and a trip to the grocery store is a real PITA (we do not have a car). We try to make frequent trips to keep her stocked up because that way I can haul the canned goods in small amounts on the bike, backpack, or cart. If you wait a week+, then the amount you need to get to restock is a lot more, more weight, and probably will cost a cab.

If we are major conservative, on the hook, we can run about two weeks on water. THis is a periodic shower and conservative clothes washing and dish washing. We can all shower conservatively, every day, for a bit over a week on what we carry comfortably. SO to cross the Atlantic or Pacific, which I have no interest in at this point, we would buy a watermaker.

I think that answered all your questions?

Brian
All good CD. yes, same here, lock stock and barrel on the boat. we actually are cruising about 1500 lbs lighter then when I left Seattle in 99. It does make a difference! I was given a water maker several years ago, and have never installed it. Don't want anything extra to maintain. 100 gallons for two goes a long way...plus it rains.

Same with food, a village on every island, fresh is so good. getting pretty handy with the crab trap. Can't keep my wife away from the fishing pole either. I ride my bike also to provision, good work out in the tropical heat. Beer gets a little heavy though..
Cheers!


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post #65 of 238 Old 04-22-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Why a racer for cruising discussion...

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The average couple is a cruiser so having the solar and wind generator should be enough with the large battery bank. Less hot water needed also therefore less storage. Less water needed therefore less storage.

You have to also add weight in fuel, pumps, shield etc. for the generator weight not just the generator.
Dave,

I think you will end up having a generator no matter what. I also am not sold on having a huge battery bank. The power required to refill that bank, after a few cloudy days, may be more than you can produce - especially considering you not only have to replenish but you have to make enough for that day to keep up with your daily loads.

The hot water killer is showers and washing dishes. The washing dishes is the same no matter how many are on board (pretty much anyways). The shower use is surprisingly small. I measure out how much water (total) I use when I shower. Conservative, I will use about 1.5 gallons. Really conservative I have gotten it under a gallon. There are some tricks to doing this, but unless you want a mutiny, you figure out real quick how to conserve the hot water. My point is that you will go through more hot water with 4 people versus two, but not as much as you might think.

The water is a bit of a different story. The actual cooking for two will not be that much less than with four people, but four people will drink twice as much water as two. The modern method for this is to buy a watermaker, then you don't have to worry about it much, but still an issue. THen your water supply is dependent on how much diesel you have, or how much electricity you make if you get a Spectra type watermaker.

Just some thoughts.

Brian

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Re: Why a racer for cruising discussion...

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Originally Posted by aeventyr60 View Post
All good CD. yes, same here, lock stock and barrel on the boat. we actually are cruising about 1500 lbs lighter then when I left Seattle in 99. It does make a difference! I was given a water maker several years ago, and have never installed it. Don't want anything extra to maintain. 100 gallons for two goes a long way...plus it rains.

Same with food, a village on every island, fresh is so good. getting pretty handy with the crab trap. Can't keep my wife away from the fishing pole either. I ride my bike also to provision, good work out in the tropical heat. Beer gets a little heavy though..
Cheers!
I have plumbed, put in the Thull, and pulled the power for the watermaker... but have not bought it yet. Water has not been our biggest problem, per se, but it can be when we are on the hook for along time. A water maker would make our life more comfortable I think - but there are so many places we enjoy going and anchoring that, even if we had a watermaker, I would not run it! Some of these bays I won't even swim in, forget drinking the water!!

We will see how much my attitude changes in the Bahamas at .45/gallon. We are trying to rig a gutter system to have the water drain into one of the tanks for things like a shower or general cleaning. THen save the other tank for good, treated, drinking water. Is that what you do?

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post #67 of 238 Old 04-22-2013
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Re: Why a racer for cruising discussion...

Brian-
"She doesn't stop on a dime anymore, if that makes sense?" More stuff equals more mass equals you need more force to accelerate it, or "un"accelerate it. So yes, your engine will need to do more work. I would guess that if the engine has enough hp, you could regain some performance by moving to a larger prop, or a different pitch. If you run the new laden weight of the boat versus a prop guide, that should give you some numbers.

And then if you install a double-decker shower, of course the hot water goes twice as far, it just isn't quite as hot when it reached the son on the lower deck.(G)
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Re: Why a racer for cruising discussion...

CD, Yes rain catchers. When it rains we shower, ha, ha. no several times a day, mandi style. Some of the rainstorms are so fierce we fill up in an hour or so. Hot water? Never. Too hot. The sunshowers we had needed a t shirt to keep the water from scalding us.

When we do fill up from a hose we have a big filter that gets any of the bigger stuff out. In the Phillipines we found water cascading off of cliffs, the fishermen usually had a tie up spot, so we just joined them at the watering hole.


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post #69 of 238 Old 04-22-2013
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Re: Why a racer for cruising discussion...

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Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
Dave,

I think you will end up having a generator no matter what. I also am not sold on having a huge battery bank. The power required to refill that bank, after a few cloudy days, may be more than you can produce - especially considering you not only have to replenish but you have to make enough for that day to keep up with your daily loads.

....
Brian
As all things in sailing in cruising generators are also a compromise. For a generator you increase substantially the weight as well as you need diesel and that diminishes your autonomy. It all depends what type of cruising you do and your life style. If you sail to faraway places or remote places you need autonomy and do not want to have your itinerary always dependent on refueling places.

I am not saying that a generator makes not sense to you but I cannot imagine having one specially now that I found out how much high performance batteries and an improved recharging system are efficient. If on a move I will have hidrogenerators that seems to be the more efficient solution. Eventually if that is not enough, wind generators and solar power.

There are many circumnavigating or cruising extensively without a generator, others don't do it without a washing machine plus the generator. What is important is that each one is satisfied with the way he is doing it, slow, fast, heavy or light has not much importance if the sailor is satisfied with his boat, his sailing, his set up and his life style and I am sure you are satisfied with yours.

regards

Paulo


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post #70 of 238 Old 04-22-2013
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Re: Why a racer for cruising discussion...

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
As all things in sailing in cruising generators are also a compromise. For a generator you increase substantially the weight as well as you need diesel and that diminishes your autonomy. It all depends what type of cruising you do and your life style. If you sail to faraway places or remote places you need autonomy and do not want to have your itinerary always dependent on refueling places.

I am not saying that a generator makes not sense to you but I cannot imagine having one specially now that I found out how much high performance batteries and an improved recharging system are efficient. If on a move I will have hidrogenerators that seems to be the more efficient solution. Eventually if that is not enough, wind generators and solar power.

There are many circumnavigating or cruising extensively without a generator, others don't do it without a washing machine plus the generator. What is important is that each one is satisfied with the way he is doing it, slow, fast, heavy or light has not much importance if the sailor is satisfied with his boat, his sailing, his set up and his life style and I am sure you are satisfied with yours.

regards

Paulo
We started out as 12 volt boat and after 14 years still are. 360 watts of solar and a wind generator take care of us just fine. We are not screen people so are energy needs are much smaller then others. I get about 6.5 years out of 6V golf cart batteries. The big draw is the fridge/freezer and this is one area we will not compromise on. Everybody needs to generate power, I just find that not burning fossil fuel is for me. I think with some very small changes everybody can exist on solar and wind.


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