Angry at my surveyor.... - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree21Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 04-18-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 8,236
Thanks: 6
Thanked 87 Times in 84 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Re: Angry at my surveyor....

You can square away the impact of the survey directly with the insurance company or agent (but not a broker). Ask them if you remain covered for taking the boat off the dock. This is where you really want a good agent to explain the ups and downs. The carrier themselves is not often motivated to explain every out they have.

While I understand the annoyance, it doesn't seem like you really disagree with the findings, other than the flares and CO detectror, only the severity. Is fixing them and making this go away an acceptable approach? You would have a better boat for it, even if not a death trap today. That's probably what I would do, even if I had the language changed.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 04-18-2013
blutoyz's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 562
Thanks: 10
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Rep Power: 2
blutoyz is on a distinguished road
Re: Angry at my surveyor....

I agree that the language used was a bit harsh considering all those items on the punch list can be fixed in an afternoon. The "soft wood" seems to be the only structural issue and I am sure that many of us wish that we only had two soft spots

You obviously have a fine vessel if that was all he could find so pull out the regs and show the insurance company the lack of a standard for the "soft spots".
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 04-18-2013
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 87
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
sd1953 is on a distinguished road
Re: Angry at my surveyor....

I recently purchased a boat. I had the surveyor look at the forward bulkheads in the main salon because the chainplates (bolted to the bulkheads) had leaked and ruined the teak veneer. I was concerned that the underlying wood in the bulkheads was also damaged and would involve a large (and expensive) repair.
If the bulkheads in your boat were glasses in, are they glassed in to provide structural support to the hull? If so, soft wood in your bulkhead matters. If it is glassed in to anchor the interior components, not so much.
But I had to *ask* my surveyor to look at it for me. He said that surveyors didn't do that kind of testing and he didn't put the condition of the bulkheads into the report. So how did your surveyor even find *soft wood*? He had to be poking it with an awl or something. Did he poke all the wood on your boat? Is there evidence of prior leakage on the bulkhead?
By the way, on the port side only, I had to have a small area of wood cut out and new wood epoxied in, but it was NOT under the chainplate so there was no compromise in the structure. The new veneer looks good, the carpenter matched both sides of the salon with a new veneer panel and put a molding strip over the joint. Looks like original construction.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 04-18-2013
sailvayu's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Wilmington, NC, for now
Posts: 124
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 2
sailvayu is on a distinguished road
Re: Angry at my surveyor....

As a surveyor I will add my comments.
Yes the wording is vague and I would ask that he reword it to name the specific items that need repair prior to "cruising"
Most items seem small and you can fix them in an afternoon. You say they were on your to do list so just do them.
Send the report to the insurance comp. They may or may not send back a letter of compliance giving you 30 days to fix the problems. You then simply sign off that they have been fixed. Rarely do they ask for more than that or a sign off by the surveyor. They take your word that the problems have been fixed.
This should not be a big deal and your boat will be better off after you are done.
There are no ABYC standards for the soft wood but some things just are common sense. Most surveyors are not trying to make life difficult but rather protect you and your boat. Sounds like you knew about most of this anyway.
Hope this helps
MedSailor, IslanderGuy and zeehag like this.
__________________
Capt. Wayne Canning, AMS

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 04-18-2013
jimgo's Avatar
Asleep at the wheel
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,739
Thanks: 69
Thanked 101 Times in 99 Posts
Rep Power: 3
jimgo is on a distinguished road
Re: Angry at my surveyor....

I had a similar statement in my survey. I sent it to the insurance company anyway. They took it and issued me a policy, and I never heard a peep about needing to correct any of the issues. In my case, the survey was both an initial purchase survey and an insurance survey, so I had no problem with him noting things like no CO detector, expired flares, etc. But, again, those deficiencies didn't stop the insurance company from issuing a policy.
__________________
- Jim
Home: Western Philly 'burbs
1980 Allmand 31
1975 Albacore 15


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 04-18-2013
svHyLyte's Avatar
Old as Dirt!
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa Bay Area
Posts: 2,334
Thanks: 11
Thanked 73 Times in 69 Posts
Rep Power: 6
svHyLyte is on a distinguished road
Re: Angry at my surveyor....

For What It's Worth, I know of no yachts without a "To Do" list that never seems to shrink. The issues will be more or less severe and are normally addressed in the order of their importance (to the owner) and not in the order of their appearance or addition to the list. Consequently, some items are repeatedly pushed down the priority list and, as so, many become accustomed to leaving them aside--until, of course, the minor issue becomes major, such as the "Soft Wood" (which I assure you can become "major" much more quickly than one might imagine).

Considering the foregoing, an insurance surveyor may do one a favor--re-awakening one to issues one has become so accustomed to that one fails to appreciate prospective impacts. It is not unlike being required to take a Traffic Safety Class after having received a ticket (in lieu of points on ones driver's license). While time consuming and a pain in the neck in some respect, one is re-awakened to the needs for awareness and moderating one's behavior behind the wheel--or aboard ship.

In the OP's case, he/she was evidently not aboard the ship at the time of the survey which, if so, was certainly an error. A surveyor cannot in an hour or two, find/discover things in obscure locations that may seem obvious to the owner--e.g. up-to-date flares or a carbon-monoxide detector--unless the owner is there to point them out.

N'any case, the enumerated issues are not so great that they cannot be rectified fairly quickly and easily and a Certificate of Compliance completed and provided to his/her insurer to resolve the matter. (Of course, providing such a Certificate without making the corrections will void one's coverage, even if an otherwise covered incident may not involve any of the listed issues).
__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 04-18-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 8,236
Thanks: 6
Thanked 87 Times in 84 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Re: Angry at my surveyor....

Quote:
Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
For What It's Worth, I know of no yachts without a "To Do" list that never seems to shrink....
Good point. I literally just received a part in the mail for something I put on the to-do list 3 years ago. Last season, I really started to tell myself I should get to it. I wonder how long it will be before I install it.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 04-18-2013
smurphny's Avatar
Over Hill Sailing Club
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Adirondacks NY
Posts: 2,320
Thanks: 34
Thanked 37 Times in 36 Posts
Rep Power: 6
smurphny is on a distinguished road
Re: Angry at my surveyor....

The entire "surveyor" system, as far as it concerns pleasure craft and insurance, is a useless scam. Insurance companies inspect cars, houses, etc. themselves. If they are truly interested in minutia found by surveyors, they ought to hire company employees to look at boats themselves. The level of competence varies so widely in this independent, unregulated, and standard-less industry that any findings are suspect at best. The vague wording in your written document is a perfect example. Not only that but no one knows a boat better than the owner if he/she has owned it for any amount of time. As you indicated, you knew about the soft spots already and did not need to pay someone to point it out to you. How much did it cost for someone to tell you what you knew already? Oh I forgot, finding that deadly missing 1/4" of insulation must have been worth it.
__________________
Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #19  
Old 04-18-2013
DRFerron's Avatar
A mod and her dragon
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,134
Thanks: 23
Thanked 88 Times in 86 Posts
Rep Power: 10
DRFerron is on a distinguished road
Re: Angry at my surveyor....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanshin View Post
My lesson learned from this exchange is that I will continue to be on hand during any future survey. Not only do I get to see parts of the boat that I never or rarely look at and discover niches and crannies that only a surveyor can find, but simple questions or problems such as the flares or unused wiring could have been verbally explained and would never have made it into the survey.
Agreed.

Our broker scheduled our survey at the same time as our sea trial so all three of us were together for the entire day. While we sailed and then while we did the short haul (all still together since we had to sail to the yard) the surveyor did his thing and when he had questions he just asked the owner.

Until I came to SailNet and heard how others do it, it never occurred to me not to be present for either a sale survey or insurance survey.
__________________
Donna


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Catalina 30 TRFK

Contributing Editor
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
magazine

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Rock Hall Cruising Station

All things that are, are equally removed from being nothing. John Donne
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #20  
Old 04-18-2013
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 14,390
Thanks: 63
Thanked 160 Times in 157 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
Re: Angry at my surveyor....

On the plus side that sounds like a pretty thorough survey for an insurance one. I pretty much dictated the last insurance survey and paid $450 for the privilege.

We've had issues in the past with survey wording and insurance-mandated "30 day" time frames that were inappropriate (bought in late Oct, and had to reseal portlight lenses within 30 days... in Vancouver - the Wet Coast - wasn't going to happen) Ended up changing carriers.

I'd try for a wording edit..
__________________
Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
trn/irs sailing angry NewsReader News Feeds 0 10-03-2012 11:00 AM
Angry Hillbillies, Fusee earn wins sailing race NewsReader News Feeds 0 12-01-2011 12:30 AM
Sailor's in the hands of an angry ocean. CalebD Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 6 06-03-2008 10:50 PM
Haiti Migrants Angry by Alleged Ramming - The Casper Star Tribune NewsReader News Feeds 0 05-10-2007 10:15 PM
Angry Prospero makes for rough sailing in "Tempest" (Denver Post) NewsReader News Feeds 0 07-19-2006 11:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:11 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012