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  #21  
Old 04-18-2013
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Re: Angry at my surveyor....

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
1: Soft wood at the tab in a forward bulkhead. (Is a soft bulkead really an ABYC standard??? Couldn't find it if it is. They also don't provide much strength to my boat.)
2: Household wire nuts found in 3 locations. (2 are decommissioned wires and one was unknown to me)
3: Start of soft wood at the aft end of the bowsprit (been keeping an eye on this. Again, is there an ABYC standard for this?)
4: Fuel gauge wiring is bare wire and needs terminal. (gauge broken, is on the to-do list)
5: Shifting cable starting to rust through. (Just found this at haulout definitely need to replace)
7: Engine exhaust hose single clamped (don't know how I, or my previous surveyor missed something so obvious)
8: Inverter positive wire terminal exposed (news to me. I never use it. Will fix)
10: Fuel fill hose at deck is single clamped. (didn't know it needed double)
So out of the 10 things that need to be replaced only 2 can be checked off the list. I'm not seeing how this surveyor was a "dick". You agree with a lot of what he found and have it on your to do list. Maybe his choice of words could've been different, but I don't think it's off the mark.

If anything you need some connectors, heat shrink tubing, and a fuel gauge. Not exactly what I would call a complete re-fit. Why so angry?

I agree with Bubblehead, the wood repairs will need to be done eventually, and they won't be cheap or easy.
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  #22  
Old 04-18-2013
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Re: Angry at my surveyor....

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Originally Posted by northoceanbeach View Post
Also, since you are the one paying him, and probably alot, shouldn't he, you know, like write what you want him too, as long as it isn't anything major?
Wow. There's a part of me that hopes you are kidding, or at least being sarcastic. But then, I don't really think so.

What you are suggesting would constitute fraud. It would lose a surveyor his accreditation. No. He absolutely cannot just "write what you want him too [sic]." And he very definitely cannot do two surveys--one that is accurate and one that is not!

On the other hand, it is perfectly reasonable for the OP to ask the surveyor to change the phrase in question to make it less vague, more precise. It would also be reasonable to ask him to cite the ABYC standards that are in violation for each of the items. That, of course, would force him to note that there is no specific standard concerning the soft wood. I can't imagine that any reputable surveyor would refuse these requests.

I think the OP has every reason to be disappointed with this survey as it is, but I see no reason why it can't be corrected. Good luck.
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  #23  
Old 04-18-2013
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Re: Angry at my surveyor....

Thanks for all the thoughts and comments.

As for why I'm angry at him it is not for finding things or missing things. It's the imprecise language that I feel could put my policy at risk. I'm also mad because he said I need to fix the 2 wood issues in order to be in ABYC compliance. I feel that statement is wrong.

Agreed that these items should eventually be fixed, but I'm currently in the yard paying for MAJOR repairs. (everything between the transmission and prop is being replaced) I fear that my bank account can't easily absorb the cost of the wood repairs and I would much rather do them later this year or next. My bulkheads aren't structural. His statement makes it sound like I should be chained to the dock until I do those things.

I'll try for a word edit on the general statement and I'll see if he made a mistake by saying I need to fix the wood to be in ABYC compliance. If he doesn't feel he made a mistake, I'll ask him to quote the standard.

If no joy with the word edits, we'll just have to see what the insurance company says. They've been good to us in the past so maybe I'm stressing out over this prematurely.

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  #24  
Old 04-18-2013
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Re: Angry at my surveyor....

Last surveyor my insurance company sent to do a survey on my boat was a contract surveyor who had never set foot on a sailboat with an inboard diesel engine before. She had a checklist that she had to complete that included all the CG reg requirements and some other simple to check things. I walked her through the list and pointed out what she needed to check to complete her list and explained the attributes she should be looking for at each item. I hesitate to use the word "clueless" but the word does come to mind.

My company is one of the top rated insurance companies in the world and insures my house/car/boat/valuables and I have an umbrella policy with them. They have carried my boat policy for 30 years.

Why the company gives boat surveys such short shrift I don't know...but I am confident the company will stand by their contract with me if I have a loss.
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Old 04-18-2013
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Re: Angry at my surveyor....

I'm a little curious as to why you don't just take the afternoon off spend a hundred bucks and fix the findings. 10 findings is nothing, the average survey has dozens, even on new boats. You have 1470 posts here so obviously time isn't a factor On another point I'm truly shocked that boats have survived before ABYC came about, its an absolute miracle that they haven't all just blown up and sunk.
PS I'm just up the bay from you and would be happy to lend a hand.
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Old 04-18-2013
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Re: Angry at my surveyor....

This is just an example why I have always had a nervous feeling about a surveyor. Frankly, When you get over your anger, I think he really did you a favor. I am more than a little cautious about boat condition. It really does not take much to sink the boat. These are all rather minor but he is right, I would want to have them all fixed ASAP. Certainly before I did any sailing I did not have to do. I would want several fixed before I headed for my home port to. Even "soft " word scares me a bit.

But I think I would see what my insurance company said before I got excited.

Frankly, I would get a lot more excited if the boat sunk and it was from one of these things and he had missed it.

Sorry my friend. A flaw on a boat to me is a bit like a rotten fuel line on a tank in a combat zone.
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Old 04-18-2013
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Re: Angry at my surveyor....

In all fairness, the surveyors aren't regulated any any kind of license or common standards, so they probably have to lean towards the more "harsh sounding" and "serious" words, in order to protect their own a$$ should you have a serious problem and come back to him. It's like conservative reporting. They can say "Well I told you so" rather than "Well, remember, we talked about that 2 years ago, kind of, but I should've emphasized the risk you were taking by not fixing it"
If a surveyor gets a reputation for giving every boat a simple pass, it would eventually lead to trouble.

But, those things (with the exception of the soft wood) are all pretty minor and if you can do them (I would suggest NOT paying somebody else) and show your insurance company they were completed ASAP then that will make them happy.

Good luck! I don't think you need to worry as much as you have been. You should see some of other peoples surveys!
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Old 04-18-2013
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Re: Angry at my surveyor....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philzy3985 View Post
In all fairness, the surveyors aren't regulated any any kind of license or common standards...
There are two independent organizations within the United States that accredit marine surveyors, SAMS and AMS. Any surveyor who is accredited by either of these does, in fact, have to adhere to specified standards.

I would never even consider hiring a surveyor who was not accredited.
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  #29  
Old 04-18-2013
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Re: Angry at my surveyor....

Being in the industry I have had the displeasure of working with many accredited surveyors who were less than qualified to do their job. A word of warning to any newbies, get good recommendations and not from the web, it can be very misleading.
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Old 04-18-2013
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Re: Angry at my surveyor....

First, while I would only hire an accredited surveyor (SAMS, NAMS), I've become very jaded over the years that they do much of anything to insure quality control. They absolute best survey I've ever had still had notable errors and omissions.

Second, Philzy makes a good point about what would happen if they ommitted something and one was hurt by the failure. Imagine the bowsprit failing under sail and something cutting across someone on the foredeck. I can hear it now, "but she was just surveyed last month, I can't believe this happened". Wood is supposed to be hard. It grows that way. Soft is soft and not good. It's just a question of how not good.
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