Angry at my surveyor.... - Page 5 - SailNet Community
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post #41 of 91 Old 04-18-2013
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Re: Angry at my surveyor....

Here's an idea:

Fix the problems and quit whining. You surveyor found some problems, including indications of rot ("soft wood" = rot), because THAT WHAT S/HE WAS HIRED TO DO. Now you're whining that "soft wood" isn't part if the ABYC standards. Whether it is or not (and somehow I think that rot in the bowsprit would put your boat out of compliance with just about ANY standards) it needs to be fixed; ditto for rot in a bulkhead.

Never forget them. Do something to prevent it from happening again.
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post #42 of 91 Old 04-18-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Angry at my surveyor....

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowButSteady View Post
Here's an idea:

Fix the problems and quit whining. You surveyor found some problems, including indications of rot ("soft wood" = rot), because THAT WHAT S/HE WAS HIRED TO DO. Now you're whining that "soft wood" isn't part if the ABYC standards. Whether it is or not (and somehow I think that rot in the bowsprit would put your boat out of compliance with just about ANY standards) it needs to be fixed; ditto for rot in a bulkhead.
Ummm.... yeah. I'll take offense to that.

Here's the point of my whining. His language can be read to say that I can't even go to the fuel dock before fixing these two issues, or not, depending on how you read it.

It's ridiculous IMO to ground the boat because of these findings (the spot in the sprit is not a load bearing location and the bulkhead isn't a structural one) and they are going to take me some time and money to fix, both of which I will have more of at the end of the summer.

I intend to call him and ask for clarification. If he truly thinks that my boat is too dangerous to sail to the fuel dock then I'll quit my "whining" and fix it here and now. I don't think that's really the case though and if I can have a little more leeway to fix it then I will take it.

There are other findings that I didn't post such as peeling paint. His survey can also be read as my needing to repaint my hull before sailing 100 yards. Ridiculous but the words he used can be read that way. I'd be willing to bet that if your insurance company told you your policy was void until you painted your boat you'd be whining too.

MedSailor

PS No surveyor hate here. I'll save that for if things go south after my phone call. I really appreciate the 2 surveyors who have been willing to post to this thread. Your input has been very useful and is appreciated.
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post #43 of 91 Old 04-18-2013
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Re: Angry at my surveyor....

I don't see how the language could be interpreted to include moving within the harbor. If he had meant "do not operate" or "do not occupy" he would have said that. Certainly cruising means--more than simply implies--open water.

(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




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post #44 of 91 Old 04-18-2013
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Re: Angry at my surveyor....

So an "independent" survey is done as required by the insurance company you choose

You are not present when they do it even though you know when it is being done
They find "X" number of things in violation or not in correct order
They write a report

You fail to call them after report or furnish them with pictures or correct the items wrong
You find fault with their "independent" language and want them to use "your" language
You have not even discussed the issues
You quibble of ACBY standards vs. obvious in sight inadequacies found at survey

Stop quibbling. Fix the issues. Send them pictures. Talk to them. Don't expect them to give up their independence by changing their language to language you want them to use


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post #45 of 91 Old 04-18-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Angry at my surveyor....

I knew there would be a bunch of "stop whining" posts. I'm just surprised they took this long.

I've tried to be clear in all my posts that I'm not mad about what he found, or what he missed. I'm mad that he's incorrectly holding me to a standard. I'm mad that his language might make me loose a good part of my sailing season or my insurance carrier. Not because (I believe) he truly thinks that the boat is unsafe but because of his sloppy choice of words. I work in a field where we get sued all the time. I know the dangers of imprecise language.

My not being present had nothing to do with his use of language on the report.

I will call him and I'll let y'all know what he says.

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post #46 of 91 Old 04-18-2013
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Re: Angry at my surveyor....

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
I will call him and I'll let y'all know what he says.

Medsailor
That's a good and sensible solution. Bet there is a meeting of the minds
Either way hope it doesn't affect your sailing


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post #47 of 91 Old 04-18-2013
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Re: Angry at my surveyor....

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
I will call him and I'll let y'all know what he says.

Medsailor
That's the right move. Call him and ask him to cite the ABYC standards in question, not us. The very vast majority of us aren't surveyors, and the very few who are are likely not going to put their rep on the line by second-guessing the surveyor who was eyes-on.

But we'll all be happy to offer our unqualified opinion on an unseen boat, unsolicited.


Something to consider, as i discovered- some surveyors will "recycle" the template of a previously performed survey on a similar boat when asked to do an insurance survey. When i received the survey on my boat i noticed a number of discrepancies- glaring differences in bilge pumps, galley equipment, sail inventory, engine type, etc. When i called the surveyor and pointed out that the auxiliary engine on my boat was a yanmar diesel, not an atomic four, among other concerns, i was told "sorry about that, because it was an insurance survey I just reused another survey and tacked on new pictures and some new info, i discovered on my inspection."

It's 5 o'clock somewhere:


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post #48 of 91 Old 04-18-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Angry at my surveyor....

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
That's a good and sensible solution. Bet there is a meeting of the minds
Either way hope it doesn't affect your sailing
Now that I've slept on it for a night (albeit restlessly) I actually don't think it's going to be all that bad in the end.

Sure, the surveyor may not budge and the insurance company could be really conservative and say that all findings, including painting the hull, must be done or else. Is that really likely? No, but I have a penchant for catastrophic thinking. Working on that...

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post #49 of 91 Old 04-18-2013
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Re: Angry at my surveyor....

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... I'm mad that he's incorrectly holding me to a standard. ...
Standard.... Shmandard... This boils down to INSURANCE and their liability for problems that could occur. If you have any claim in the future and it is directly tied to any of the items listed in his report, regardless of whether they are ABYC standards or not, the insurance company now has basis for not paying the claim (if they choose to fight).

I think you're missing the point ENTIRELY by worrying about his choice of wording on the report about how quickly they need to be fixed. If he didn't want you sailing to the fuel dock, he would have told you so. Instead, he is providing a report that the INSURANCE company can/will use to deny claims, regardless of how strong his choice of words are.

Last edited by SolSailor; 04-19-2013 at 12:13 AM. Reason: change defend to deny
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post #50 of 91 Old 04-19-2013
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Angry at my surveyor....

The written word has always posed communication issues because of the interpretation of the author and that of the reader. This may explain the continuous ongoings in the court of law.

If I was in the same situation as the OP, I would have a conversation with the surveyor and negotiate a rewrite whereby language can still make the meanings, but with the allowances that may not provision limited restrictions on the boat, or, have a second survey done by another person and compare the two reports to learn and negotiate once again.
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