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  #21  
Old 04-23-2013
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Re: Insurance and cruising...

I've got mixed feelings on this.

A couple of years ago someone sailed a boat into a local harbor and anchored in the middle of the mooring field which started a game of bumper boats. The harbor master had him move. He came back later, and tied to a loading area on town dock and left the boat. The harbor master again had him move. Then he went out into the bay and dropped his anchor straight down before a storm, zero scope and rowed ashore before a gale. The boat of course didn't hold and slipped about 1/2 mile across the bay into some docks and destroyed them. He had no insurance, the boat had no salvage value, the owner was broke. Costs fell to the town, the owner of the dock, and those who do buy insurance. These costs including towing away and disposing of the guys boat that was hard aground with remains of the dock wrapped around it.

A few irresponsible individuals mess it up for everyone. I am sure there are stories on the other side of people with insurance that abuse that.

No easy answers.


That said, I've never been asked for proof of insurance as a transient, but have been consistently asked when operating out of a marina seasonally.
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  #22  
Old 04-23-2013
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Re: Insurance and cruising...

Quote:
Originally Posted by capecodda View Post
I've got mixed feelings on this.

A couple of years ago someone sailed a boat into a local harbor and anchored in the middle of the mooring field which started a game of bumper boats. The harbor master had him move. He came back later, and tied to a loading area on town dock and left the boat. The harbor master again had him move. Then he went out into the bay and dropped his anchor straight down before a storm, zero scope and rowed ashore before a gale. The boat of course didn't hold and slipped about 1/2 mile across the bay into some docks and destroyed them. He had no insurance, the boat had no salvage value, the owner was broke. Costs fell to the town, the owner of the dock, and those who do buy insurance. These costs including towing away and disposing of the guys boat that was hard aground with remains of the dock wrapped around it.

A few irresponsible individuals mess it up for everyone. I am sure there are stories on the other side of people with insurance that abuse that.

No easy answers.


That said, I've never been asked for proof of insurance as a transient, but have been consistently asked when operating out of a marina seasonally.
My comment is that the marina should have had insurance, and gone after the person. Their insurance would cover them. And no amount of insurance can fix stupid.

As I said, I personally carry insurance. Always will where possible. But I do not begrudge those that choose not to. But that is kinda like me playing both sides of the coin, I guess???

Brian
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  #23  
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Re: Insurance and cruising...

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Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
My comment is that the marina should have had insurance, and gone after the person. Their insurance would cover them. And no amount of insurance can fix stupid.

As I said, I personally carry insurance. Always will where possible. But I do not begrudge those that choose not to. But that is kinda like me playing both sides of the coin, I guess???

Brian
Yep, I find myself sitting exactly in the same place, I can see both sides.
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  #24  
Old 04-23-2013
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Re: Insurance and cruising...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
My comment is that the marina should have had insurance, and gone after the person. Their insurance would cover them. And no amount of insurance can fix stupid.

As I said, I personally carry insurance. Always will where possible. But I do not begrudge those that choose not to. But that is kinda like me playing both sides of the coin, I guess???

Brian
Insurance rarely if ever covers the whole loss. There are always deductibles and negotiated settlements. Ultimately, we all pay in that game by either having substandard repaired boats or in ever higher premiums.

What should have happened is the neighboring sailors and community should have shown up on this guys boat and "strongly encouraged" him to move along. If he refused to, well...

I'm not advocating vigilante justice, but when you rely on governments, systems, procedures, and laws to solve what a community should address, then we all lose a bit of freedom.
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Last edited by night0wl; 04-24-2013 at 09:52 AM.
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  #25  
Old 04-23-2013
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Re: Insurance and cruising...

By the time I lost my first boat in Fiji, it would have cost me far more in insurance than it cost to replace it, and they would have forced me to put up with crew I didnt want, eliminating my reason for cruising in the first place. No thanks!
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  #26  
Old 04-24-2013
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Re: Insurance and cruising...

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Originally Posted by night0wl View Post
Insurance rarely if ever covers the whole loss. There are always deductibles and negotiated settlements. Ultimately, we all pay in the game.

What should have happened is the neighboring sailors and community should have shown up on this guys boat and "strongly encouraged" him to move along. If he refused to, well...

I'm not advocating vigilante justice, but when you rely on governments, systems, procedures, and laws to solve what a community should address, then we all lose a bit of freedom.

Actually, the neighboring sailors did exactly that, but it didn't work, the owner of this vessel was not very bright.

In a perfect world, people are reasonably intelligent, take full responsibility for their actions and clean up any mess they make, insured or not.
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Re: Insurance and cruising...

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Originally Posted by capecodda View Post
Actually, the neighboring sailors did exactly that, but it didn't work, the owner of this vessel was not very bright.

In a perfect world, people are reasonably intelligent, take full responsibility for their actions and clean up any mess they make, insured or not.
Whats the phrase (attributed to Einstein)...

"There are two things that are infinite. The universe and human stupidity...and I'm not sure about the universe"
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  #28  
Old 04-24-2013
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Re: Insurance and cruising...

I Have insurance for me, not for someone else. I hope the other boat has insurance it makes life easier, but if he does not I have mine. Up until yesterday I was covered for Australia and 200 miles off shore, now I have added New Caledonia and Vanuatu and the water between to my policy for an extra $152.37. Its nice to be covered.
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  #29  
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Re: Insurance and cruising...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
By the time I lost my first boat in Fiji, it would have cost me far more in insurance than it cost to replace it, and they would have forced me to put up with crew I didnt want, eliminating my reason for cruising in the first place. No thanks!
Don't want this to come out the wrong way Brent, but when you hit that reef, did you damage it? Did you have to pay a fine for damaging the reef? Did you have to pay a fine for any environmental problems, like fuel spilled? Did you have to pay to have the boat raised and hauled into a yard and disposed of properly?

Seems to me that the costs of that kind of mishap would be extraordinary. THe US Navy just got off easy with a $1.5M fine for hitting the reef in the pacific - and they disposed of their own vessel, tried to take immediate reactions to correct it, and eventually cut up and hauled it off themselves. I understand the magnitude of damage between a mine sweeper and a private yacht are quite a bit different, but there is still a lot of damage a private yacht can wield on a reef, and most of us do not have available the resources to take care of that ourselves.

And how would you like to be dealing with this without insurance: Mega-yacht Still Marooned off Key West | Terryorisms

That boat has reduced a multimillionaire to sleeping on a floating barge and years (and nearly a million later) it STILL is not off!! How would you like to tackle that one without insurance?

So, seems to me that your example is exactly a reason pay insurance and carry it. And the minuscule cost you might have incurred on premiums would dwarf the vast amount of money you might be facing for just an environmental disaster such as you mentioned. This doesn't even mention the costs incurred if you were to hit another vessel... especially with the steel sailboat you now sail that could cause considerable damage to (if not sink) a fiberglass or wooden boat.

Just an observation.

Brian
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  #30  
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Re: Insurance and cruising...

Thank you for this thread. After reading it upped my liability to $1m. Surprisingly was short money.
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