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  #11  
Old 04-30-2013
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Re: Jackline system

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
What do you guys think?
I wonder why the first image to pop into my head was some poor soul being 'teabagged' off the end of a halyard 6 feet to leeward of a well heeled over boat sailing along on autopilot???

Actually, combined with a harness tether I suppose it could work out OK...
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  #12  
Old 04-30-2013
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Re: Jackline system

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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
OK guys, I have NO experience with clipping in, but I will be singlehanding this weekend so I've been studying up.

There is a real problem on the 27' and smaller boats with getting a tether that's long enough to have room to move around, yet that length allows you to dangle over the side. This is especially a problem on the foredeck where the boat gets narrower.

Some of us who have furlers also have an extra unused halyard from the masthead. What about clipping onto that halyard in addition to a traditional tether when on the foredeck? In the event of a fall, the halyard keeps you from dangling in the water, and the traditional tether keeps you from getting a "wild ride" off the side of the boat if the mast sways in rough water. It seems like the two in combination would be a good combination.

This was suggested to me by a guy on the Catalina 25 forum, who says he read about it in one of the Pardeys' books on cruising. It would seem to me that the halyard would allow you to use a longer tether on the bow.

What do you guys think?
unnecessary 'complexity'. KISS
learn to "3-point" yourself when going forward, etc. A '3-point' is to always have three of either feet or hands 'connected' or in firm contact with deck, etc. and only ONE hand/foot 'moving' or changing position at a time ... the other 3-points locking you in. Eg. If one hand is 'moving', the other hand is grasping and the two feet are securely in contact; or, if one foot is 'moving' both hands are 'grasping' and the other foot in solid contact.

Other points.
if you use only a 'climbers' harness, if you go overboard and get dragged along youll be dragged mostly 'foot first' or 'jackknifed' ... a climbers harness has it connection too 'low' on the body for 'boat work'. If you do 'invert' (dragged 'ass first') with a climber harness on the possibility exists that you can slip out of the harness. What you want is the harness connection to be 'high' on the body with the connection near the middle of your sternum .... then if you fall overboard and become dragged along, it will be 'head first'. Better, if the that 'high' or 'chest harness' has adequate 'crotch' straps.
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  #13  
Old 04-30-2013
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Re: Jackline system

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Originally Posted by Joel H. View Post
The neat little device you see in the pic that makes it all possible is from the mountaineering world and is called a "TIbloc" They work with a carabiner and any reasonable size line to lock the line at any point, (like a Jumar).
Yours is a clever use of a gadget like the Tiblock, but the whole arrangement still seems needlessly complex, to me...

After a fair bit of experimentation with an assortment of solutions, I've arrived at the conclusion that fixed tethers at the base of the mast, and another in the cockpit, are the way to go on boats under 30 feet or so... Configure a way to shorten the tether at chest height once you reach the mast, add another short tether on the foredeck if you think you really need it, but I think traditional jacklines on boats as small as yours are really not necessary, and not nearly as effective as fixed tethers... On boats of that size, where moving about the deck can be a bit tricky to begin with, I think jacklines might be more likely to trip you up, and contribute to the possibility of a fall, than they might be in keeping you aboard to begin with...

Sorry to say, but I think sometimes we're WAY over-thinking this whole jackline/tether deal... (grin, bigtime)

KISS...

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  #14  
Old 04-30-2013
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Re: Jackline system

* The Tybloc will reduce the line strength to about 2000 pounds, based on the testing I've seen. Probably OK for a short tether, but too low for a tight jackline.
Sail Delmarva: Sample Calculations for Jackline Stress and Energy Absorption

* Seems too fiddly to use in rough conditions. I would favor short tethers (3 feet) and conventional jacklines, even on a 27-foot boat. The adjustable tethers I might like. I use dual length (3'/6') tethers and they suit my boat fine, but I would go shorter on a smaller boat, perhaps 2'/4'.

* Look at the Kong Tango. Tango Carabiner : Rock Climbing Gear : Rockclimbing.com. I've been using these for a while. Fast.

I've used Tyblocs climbing (hauling and to prevent slack from sliding back when simulclimbing), but they really aren't meant to take fall impact. No accender is.
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  #15  
Old 04-30-2013
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Re: Jackline system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
...Actually, combined with a harness tether I suppose it could work out OK...
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichH View Post
unnecessary 'complexity'. KISS
Like I mentioned, clipping the halyard on was not an idea that I thought up in my naÔvetť. It was suggested by a couple authors of popular cruising books, and has apparently been proven to be effective for small boats where the narrow foredeck makes it difficult to size a harness with enough room to work without being long enough to be dragged in the water.

This evening I switched out the snap shackle on my spare halyard with a quick release shackle like the one on my tether, and adjusted its length to allow me to go to the furler drum if needed, so it's ready to go. I'll see how complex it is and either use it or abandon it (or hopefully won't have to go to the foredeck at all while underway). But meanwhile, it's attached to a stanchion available as needed, just like it has been for the last 3 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichH View Post
...if you use only a 'climbers' harness, if you go overboard and get dragged along youll be dragged mostly 'foot first' or 'jackknifed'..
I never suggested a climbers harness. That must have been someone else. The harness I bought has the rings and horizontal chest strap level with the base of my armpits, which is a very comfortable location for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
...After a fair bit of experimentation with an assortment of solutions, I've arrived at the conclusion that fixed tethers at the base of the mast, and another in the cockpit, are the way to go on boats under 30 feet or so...
I'll be singlehanding for the first time this weekend, so that's why I'm using harness/tether for the first time. I'm taking a "kitchen sink" approach with more ways to attach than I will probably use. But I'll see what works best and what's more trouble than it's worth, and then strip out the ones I don't need. I've rigged clipping points at my steering wheel, traveler, and mast and will add a couple fixed tethers too. At present I still need a jackline to get from traveler to mast and mast to foredeck.
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  #16  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: Jackline system

Lots of great feedback here, thanks guys!
As to the earlier question: Unless I put something in to lock the hasp between the hatch and the drop boards, it could have a tenancy to push the hatch open. But actually it seems to tension down on the hatch, as much as anything, and secures it's position. Of course, that could change as conditions worsen.
As for the weakening caused by the Tibloc device, my goal with this system is to not fall far on the system, by maintaining minimal slack at all stations.
But let me be clear, I'm not married to it yet.
I think the jackline tensioning part is sound, whether I stick with the lanyard portion is still open to debate.
I certainly appreciate any and all thoughts on the matter so keep them coming.
Cheers,
Joel H.
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  #17  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: Jackline system

What about just using a ratchet from a roof tiedown strap for cargo? Something like Harbor freight sells. They have a high load tolerance.
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  #18  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: Jackline system

I use 1/4 inch 1x19 rigging wire for a jack line . With a nicopess eye in each end, it doent roll or stretch. Been there for 29 years.
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  #19  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: Jackline system

Jon, I think yours is probably the best advise and approach.

It seems though, that I am most vulnerable moving from the cockpit to the shrouds/mast. Using a lanyard long enough to cover the distance between the cockpit anchor and the mast anchor-point concerns me.
Just so you understand, my main motivation is the 40 deg water that await me if I screw up.
I probably am over thinking. I come from the climbing world where, except for a "daring" few, the idea is to stay connected at all times.
Also I like the idea of finding ways to use all the neat climbing gear i already have.
Joel H.
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Old 05-01-2013
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Re: Jackline system

What would be unsatisfactory about 1/2 inch nylon three strand run from port stern cleat through bow cleat to starbard stern cleat? Talking about a 28' boat. Can hook a double teather to port and starbord when in cockpit and unclip one and go forward with the other. The stretch would keep you from breaking your back when falling. Rolling under foot would be minimized as it would lie along the coach house, not in the middle of the side deck.
The only issue I see is unable to clip on before leaving the cabin.
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