Winged keel - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 05-01-2013
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 14
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Adirondackman is on a distinguished road
Winged keel

What are the pro's/con's of a winged keel?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 05-01-2013
travlineasy's Avatar
Morgan 33 O.I. Perryville
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,601
Thanks: 3
Thanked 81 Times in 68 Posts
Rep Power: 4
travlineasy will become famous soon enough
Re: Winged keel

Pro - you can usually sail in skinnier water.

Cons - I was told the boat may be a bit more tender than the same model with a fin keel. Not sure about that, but that's what my sailing instructor told me.

Gary
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 05-01-2013
Jiminri's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 240
Thanks: 10
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Jiminri is on a distinguished road
Re: Winged keel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adirondackman View Post
What are the pro's/con's of a winged keel?
Run aground in mud/sand and the winged keel becomes a highly effective anchor. And you can't heel the boat to work free. At least that's what I've been told. Never had one, so I'd like to know how true that is.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Nonsuch 30 Ultra #343 1986
West River, MD
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 05-01-2013
GeorgeB's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Alameda, San Francisco Bay
Posts: 1,607
Thanks: 1
Thanked 42 Times in 41 Posts
Rep Power: 10
GeorgeB is on a distinguished road
Re: Winged keel

As most wing keels are between a foot and 18 inches shorter than their “normal” keel counterparts, how much of a real advantage do they really give? Do you guys normally sail in depths of less than two feet under your keels? When I am in skinny water, I’m always afraid of running across and getting stuck on a hump (did this twice). I’m also afraid of hitting that sunken shopping cart or lawn chair too. (I normally sail in depths greater than 100’ – I don’t know how you guys on the east coast can stand that skinny water.)
__________________
George B
2000 Catalina 34 MkII
Alameda, Ca.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 05-01-2013
travlineasy's Avatar
Morgan 33 O.I. Perryville
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,601
Thanks: 3
Thanked 81 Times in 68 Posts
Rep Power: 4
travlineasy will become famous soon enough
Re: Winged keel

Some things you just have to live with here in the Chesapeake and Delaware bays. And, most of the ICW is right skinny as well.

Gary
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 05-01-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,090
Thanks: 3
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 6
chuck53 is on a distinguished road
Re: Winged keel

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
I donít know how you guys on the east coast can stand that skinny water.)
How would you like it if all of us east coast people were to pack up and move to the west coast?
__________________
Catalina 34
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 05-01-2013
GeorgeB's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Alameda, San Francisco Bay
Posts: 1,607
Thanks: 1
Thanked 42 Times in 41 Posts
Rep Power: 10
GeorgeB is on a distinguished road
Re: Winged keel

Chuck, Do you know that California is C34 heaven? And San Francisco is home to the mighty Fleet 1? A fellow C34 skipper is always welcome. For the rest of you guys: Two forms of ID and a letter of recommendation from your YC Commodore please...

But seriously, you guys sail in that shallow water where a foot is the margin of safety? How do you account for tides? My Chesapeake experience is somewhat limited, I did do an AYC Beercan years ago as a trimmer on a C27 out of Eastport.
__________________
George B
2000 Catalina 34 MkII
Alameda, Ca.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 05-01-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 2,042
Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 9
PalmettoSailor will become famous soon enough
Re: Winged keel

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
Chuck, Do you know that California is C34 heaven? And San Francisco is home to the mighty Fleet 1? A fellow C34 skipper is always welcome. For the rest of you guys: Two forms of ID and a letter of recommendation from your YC Commodore please...

But seriously, you guys sail in that shallow water where a foot is the margin of safety? How do you account for tides? My Chesapeake experience is somewhat limited, I did do an AYC Beercan years ago as a trimmer on a C27 out of Eastport.
The tidal range on the Chessy is about a foot so we don't have to worry a whole lot about tide.

And yes there are plenty of creek entrances where even with a wing keel you'll only have 2-3' feet below you in the center at high tide and if you get 1/2 a boat length out of the channel you'll be aground. The way we deal with it just like anywhere else; plan to cross shoal areas at high tide or not to cross them.

For the OP, the only advantage of a winged keel is the ability to manage short water. If your primary sailing area or intended use doesn't constrain you, I'd go fin. If you plan to cruise the Chesapeake Bay, ICW and/or Florida waters you're going to be more limited with a deeper fin than shoal draft or wing keel. A 6' keel on the Chesapeake will limit you somewhat, a 7' keel starts dictating what marina's will be available to you and rules out a ton of popular anchorages. I think ICW sailors tell you 5' is around the most you'd want.

In regards to wing keels being more problematic to get unstuck if you do run aground I can just say I've never experienced that and I've never personally met anyone with a story like that. I've found the bottom with my wing keel more times than I can count but have always been able to free myself. However, I was motoring into a creek or anchorage and feeling my way along so I didn't just ram myself aground.
__________________
PalmettoSailor
s/v Palmetto Moon
1991 Catalina 36
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 05-01-2013
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 29
Thanks: 4
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 0
MarkSailor is on a distinguished road
Re: Winged keel

Like everything about a boat, a wing keel is a trade-off. You draw less water, but the conventional wisdom is that you don't point as high, and may heel a bit more in the same wind. I have a Catalina 320 with a wing keel, and I can attest that she doesn't point like the racers do. But I've never sailed the fin keel version of the C320, so I don't know if I've lost that much from the wing keel. One thing that is pretty unambiguous is that most wing keels are heavier than the equivalent fin keel, to keep the righting moment similar with a shorter keel. So sailing the wing keel is like bringing a couple extra friends aboard for every sail.

The real issue is how thin is the water where you sail, and what kind of sailing do you plan to do. I do my racing on a friend's boat that draws 7'6", and will out-point mine by a healthy margin. On the other hand, some days we can barely get my friend's boat out of the marina. I knew I wasn't likely to race my boat, and would be doing a lot of my sailing single-handed, with no crew to swing out on the boom to heel the boat and reduce draft. So the wing keel wasn't much of a sacrifice. And the all the water you sail in doesn't have to be shallow before you get a benefit -- just the shallowest spot you might have to cross.

On the other hand, if you plan to race, or if you sail mostly in deep water, and don't venture in the shallows, the shallower draft of the wing keel isn't much of a benefit, and the loss of pointing ability may bother you more. In that case, you'd probably be happier with a fin keel.

Basically, you choose which way you want to compromise, and then hope it works out. Either way, if what you're complaining about your is your sailboat, you're already doing pretty well.

Mark
S/V Reality
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 05-01-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,090
Thanks: 3
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 6
chuck53 is on a distinguished road
Re: Winged keel

When I had my C-30 with a 5' keel, I hit bottom more than a few times. With my C-34, 4' wing, I haven't hit bottom the first time.
Here on the Chesapeake and all it's tributaries, we have more quiet little anchorages than you can count and the nice thing, we don't have to carry hundreds of feet of anchor rode. I've never put out more than 100'
__________________
Catalina 34
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Seafarer 24 swing keel, keel pivot? Sailing qualities? skygazer Boat Review and Purchase Forum 44 10-21-2013 10:50 PM
Questions about barrier coat on steel keel, and sealing keel joint EricinToronto Gear & Maintenance 1 04-21-2012 10:43 PM
Swing Keel or Fixed Keel for Caribbean Sailing SailorJim123 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 1 02-04-2009 11:15 AM
Winged warrior - dodging the flying fish @ Sail World Australia NewsReader News Feeds 0 04-12-2006 12:15 AM
Winged Keels Pros & Cons OldGlory Boat Review and Purchase Forum 13 04-09-2002 06:51 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:45 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.