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Insurance rant - How would you respond

8K views 62 replies 19 participants last post by  boatpoker 
#1 ·
The insurance for my boat is reasonably priced by my current company, even after Sandy (we are in NC and where not effected by that storm). Their geographical restrictions are ok by me as they emcompass my general sailing area. They require a survey every 5 years I own the boat. I have just completed 5 years and I had the boat surveyed by an accreddited surveyor.

His findings are listed as recommendations at three levels; green - surveyor observations and general recommendations, blue - maintenance issues which are not necessarily manditory, and red - safety defects which may be manditory.

the vessel was found fit for its intended purpose with the following red recommendations:
inspect and replace the propane tanks as necessary; it is highly recommended that a pressure gauge be inserted in the propane system to test for leaks (this is just a recommendation).

have the life raft inspection brought up to date (the life raft is not required for operation, but clearly before I venture out where I might need it I will have it inspected).

the blue and green recommendations mostly consited of meeting ABYC recommendations which include warning labels for the operation of all appliances; such as the stove, the diesel cabin heater, etc.

the value of the boat was found to be nearly equal to my purchase price 5 years ago and the replacement value is 5 times that amount.

I am complying with the red safety recommendations, but after discussion with the surveyor he indicated that ABYC requirements are only recommendations and not manditory and in fact the warning label requirments under ABYC-A26 do not really apply to the appliances I have.

I then recieve a letter from my insurance company thanking me for the survey and then stating that "Within the survey, there are “recommendations” set forth to bring your boat into good repair. Even though the survey identifies these as “recommendations,” they are requirements of your insurance policy."

I am furious at their audacity to take my money and ignore their responsibililty to insure my boat based on missing warning labels that don't even apply!

How would you respond to the insurance company based on these statements?

Just ranting, :mad::mad:
Ron
 
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#39 ·
"Why does it have to be a crap shoot? "
Why are doctors required to be tested and licensed and reviewed and attend professional education after four years of special schooling and further apprenticeship [sic] and still, they mistreat and kill a quarter million people a year in the US alone? From all sorts of totally avoidable errors.
And you think the insurance industry is going to find, train, and certify surveyors to a better standard?

I think it is a crapshoot because anything else would be incredibly expensive and not at all effective.

Minne-
You may have a great doctor, but have you ever tried to interview around to FIND one if you need one? You can ask friends, if they've had the same needs or you're looking for a GP. But to "try one on" or even interview their offices? In many places now, older independent MD's are either retiring or moving onto hospital staff, because they don't want to spend the money to computerize their office. (Which means they haven't been using computers for 20 years, which means they are lousy practice managers, but that's something else again.) And once they join a staff someplace, they're often rated on metrics and spending 1/2 hour with a patient needs to be justified--or they're fired.
Time are changing and sadly "Dewey, Screwem & Howe" is no longer a comedy.

Insurers? You can dig up ratings, you can ask around, but for the average customer listening to the little green lizard has some appeal. After all, you've never heard a little lizard lie, have you?

Didn't think so, neither have I. "Idiocracy". (sigh)
 
#40 ·
You name me one university, college or government recognized trade school that offers a diploma or a degree or a government recognized trade certificate that states you are a marine surveyor and I will eat every word I have typed.
 
#46 ·
A graduation certificate is nothing more than a participation certificate. It shows that you have completed a course and you have achieved the expected standards of the school, not the industry.
A 180 hour course is simply an introduction into this industry.
This certificate means nothing outside of this college.
I would hope that when marine surveying becomes a recognized trade or a profession that the standards are as high or higher than what SAMS is teaching and not what some college has decided will be the trade standard.
Any thoughts on that ebs001?
 
#57 ·
As a retired SAMS AMS. My issue with SAMS is that they accept members as SA's (Surveyor Associates) that are given 5yrs to take and pass the "Accredited" exam. Few understand the SA's are beginners and fly under the SAMS flag for five years. Most do not pass the "accreditation" exam and fall out of the profession. Many of these people were incompetent to begin with but lasted for 5yrs as a SAMS SA due to the name of SAMS.
Other than that issue, I believe the SAMS program which demands continuing education credits is a worthwhile one.
 
#48 ·
As far as training I agree that SAMS has it together. The problem with SAMS is they are making a lot of money for doing very little.
If you have the opportunity to train people to your own standards, charge them what ever you want and have no recourse from anyone to dispute what you are doing, well thats a monopoly.
Why would you give that up too compitition from every university, college and trade school across north america. You would be shooting yourself in the financial foot. I believe this is part of the reason why marine surveying is not a recognized trade or profession as there is no incentive to do so. The other reason is there is just too much for one person to know and ultimately train someone to know.
There are far to many systems on a boat for any one person to have a complete grasp on everything. What would be a better way is for ticketed tradesmen to inspect each system. A marine electrician can focus on the wiring, a marine mechanic can inspect the propulsion systems, a marine engineer can focus on structure and so on.
What I don't agree with is an uncontrolled industry having such power over people and their assets.
When I hear someone say ,"I can run circles around any surveyor". Well thats the last guy I would want to hire to survey my boat, but that's what you get with an unregulated industry.
A self policing industry that does it's own quality control checks won't work either as there is an element for back patting which seems to already exsist.
I tend to look at marine surveyors this way; it's like giving someone your watch and then asking them what time it is.
What are your thoughts on that ebs001?
 
#49 ·
So what are your thoughts on this topic ebs001?
All you have contributed so far is to accuse me of spreading misstruths, basically calling me a liar. Then you offer nothing to back up what you say????. wtf
 
#50 ·
dogship, that school does have state and national accredations, and that status does indeed give their certificates and degrees some status as legitimate. A certificate program may not be a "trade" certificate and it may be less than a full degree, but then again, they're all on the same par.

It is indeed a certificate, from an accredited source, which seems to consider a "degree" in that niche as not necessary. Most of today's degrees, including doctorates, are established in exactly the same way. Whatever an academic or guild decided they should be. Attorneys promoted themselves from bachelorates (LLB) to doctorates (JD) without changing the materials involved at all. MDs, dentists, chiropractors, osteopaths, continue to wage wars but all practice "medicine".

180 hours of training as a surveyor? Do you really need more than that to tell when something is broken? It is a formal course, program, curriculum. That's the start of a "standard".
 
#52 ·
Wilson Tech no longer offers that Mechanics course, although they've got a similar program now. But that's a moot point since your courses are supposed to teach you how to operate and repair, where a surveyor doesn't need to know how to fix things, he just needs to know "that's busted". [sic]

Don't need to know how to use a torque wrench or why head bolts aren't re-used, to know an engine is going to need a tear-down.
 
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