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  #31  
Old 05-03-2013
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Re: Insurance rant - How would you respond

Quote:
Originally Posted by pyewackette View Post
....(Seems the way the typical banking, insurance, medical businesses operate now days anyway, but that's another rant).....
Lumping them all together is like rallying a lynch mob. Not all banks, insurance companies and medical businesses are the same.

Specific to your question, not all insurance companies have the same claims approach. Some charge lower premiums, but will highly scrutinize every claim, in order to keep their prices low. Others will charge more and pay out more. Still again, some will only insure the lowest risks to keep their claims low. They are all different, its business. You need a good agent to help you know who is who. If you want the lowest cost, you will get what you pay for. That may be okay with you. Listening to little green lizards is the worst way to choose. So who is the real dope in the equation, when lizards actually work.

Here's a common example of a coverage exclusion. Say the insurance company charges you $100 to insure against the loss of your barn that would cost them $10k to rebuild. The policy is going to exclude anything that may be inside the barn of value you didn't tell them about. Store your '63 split window corvette in there and it is not covered by that policy. The Vette is worth more than the barn itself, so one shouldn't expect it to be covered for free. Often, the insureds find out later and blame it on the small print. One needs a good agent to explain all of this and the consumer needs to be sure they are actually buying the coverage they want or need. Same with boats. Most only look at the price of the policy and get what they deserve.

As for banks and medical businesses. My bank is a community bank. Good people, honest and personally help at the same local charities. They expect they will be paid back when people borrow money, because the money is actually from the depositors in the same community. They profit from taking the risk that some will lose their jobs, or get sick and can't. Way too many loans were made by large banks and mortgage brokers to borrowers that knew themselves they could never afford the house they bought and are the most likely to blame the bank.

My doctor actually spends 30 full minutes with me to review the results of my annual physical and blood tests. He charges me for the time and I gladly pay it.

Find what you want. Lump them together and you'll get what you deserve.
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  #32  
Old 05-03-2013
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Re: Insurance rant - How would you respond

I hate beating a dead horse but;
Marine surveyors use many credentials, letters and terms such as "accredited", "certified", "qualifed", "AMS", "CMS", etc. There are many ways to train to become a marine surveyor including taking correspondence courses, apprenticing, or simply opening a business.
However, marine surveyors pursue their profession independently of required organizations, and there is currently no national or international licensing requirement for marine surveyors.
All association terms and initials represent training and certification are by private organizations.
Enough said.
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  #33  
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Re: Insurance rant - How would you respond

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Originally Posted by Dog Ship View Post
I hate beating a dead horse but;
Marine surveyors use many credentials, letters and terms such as "accredited", "certified", "qualifed", "AMS", "CMS", etc. There are many ways to train to become a marine surveyor including taking correspondence courses, apprenticing, or simply opening a business.
However, marine surveyors pursue their profession independently of required organizations, and there is currently no national or international licensing requirement for marine surveyors.
All association terms and initials represent training and certification are by private organizations.
Enough said.
Maybe you figure if you wait long enough you can again post your incorrect assertion that all marine surveyors are not accredited. Please refer to Maine Sails post #17.
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  #34  
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Re: Insurance rant - How would you respond

Dude, I have made myself very clear about how I feel toward marine surveyors, banks and insurance companies many times on this website. If you have something else to contribute to this thread then go ahead, otherwise......
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  #35  
Old 05-03-2013
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Re: Insurance rant - How would you respond

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Originally Posted by ebs001 View Post
Maybe you figure if you wait long enough you can again post your incorrect assertion that all marine surveyors are not accredited. Please refer to Maine Sails post #17.
Dog Ship is correct. Anyone can call themselves a surveyor and there is no law or rule they have to belong to any particular organization. That said most (but not all) insurance companies will only accept reports from a SAMS or NAMS accredited surveyor. SAMS and NAMS have some strict requirements and require all members to keep continuing education in an effort to keep members up to date. It is an expensive process to maintain membership in good standing. This does not mean all members are good surveyors but it helps weed out the wannabes from the professionals. Being a member means you have trained in the standards and you follow basic guidelines for report formats. There is more involved than just finding problems and this why reports get turned down from non members. A survey needs to be an appraiser, an inspector, an expert on standards, an expert on insurance and have some knowledge of maritime law as well as knowing how boats are built and how to look for problem signs. He needs to understand engines, electrical systems and structure.
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  #36  
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Re: Insurance rant - How would you respond

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Lumping them all together is like rallying a lynch mob. Not all banks, insurance companies and medical businesses are the same.

Specific to your question, not all insurance companies have the same claims approach. Some charge lower premiums, but will highly scrutinize every claim, in order to keep their prices low. Others will charge more and pay out more. Still again, some will only insure the lowest risks to keep their claims low. They are all different, its business. You need a good agent to help you know who is who. If you want the lowest cost, you will get what you pay for. That may be okay with you. Listening to little green lizards is the worst way to choose. So who is the real dope in the equation, when lizards actually work.

Here's a common example of a coverage exclusion. Say the insurance company charges you $100 to insure against the loss of your barn that would cost them $10k to rebuild. The policy is going to exclude anything that may be inside the barn of value you didn't tell them about. Store your '63 split window corvette in there and it is not covered by that policy. The Vette is worth more than the barn itself, so one shouldn't expect it to be covered for free. Often, the insureds find out later and blame it on the small print. One needs a good agent to explain all of this and the consumer needs to be sure they are actually buying the coverage they want or need. Same with boats. Most only look at the price of the policy and get what they deserve.

As for banks and medical businesses. My bank is a community bank. Good people, honest and personally help at the same local charities. They expect they will be paid back when people borrow money, because the money is actually from the depositors in the same community. They profit from taking the risk that some will lose their jobs, or get sick and can't. Way too many loans were made by large banks and mortgage brokers to borrowers that knew themselves they could never afford the house they bought and are the most likely to blame the bank.

My doctor actually spends 30 full minutes with me to review the results of my annual physical and blood tests. He charges me for the time and I gladly pay it.

Find what you want. Lump them together and you'll get what you deserve.
You might want to consider the size of the company you are dealing with. From what I can tell large corporations are or as bad or worse than large government. Haven't you noticed that we have moved from too big to fail, to too big to prosecute. I think the way large business treats the general public does require a lynch mob at this point. If you are lucky enough to find a small local business to do your business, more power to you.
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  #37  
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Re: Insurance rant - How would you respond

In BC we have government controlled auto insurance. The Insurance Corporation of BC is a branch of or Provincial Government. It is heavily regulated for obvious reasons.
If ICBC asks for a safety inspection on a vehical which is basicaly a survey on the vehical, you will be required to take that vehical to a government approved safety inspection facility where a licenced mechanic will go over a pile of peramiters and deem the vechile fit or not fit for the road. In other words, you get insurance or you are denied insurance until it is fit for the road.
The similarities with boats and cars ends there, but my point is that you are not allowed to take your car to "the guy down the street" for an inspection no matter how much "experience " he has.
Anyone can repair the vehical but you will still need that government approved, licenced mechanics signature on the bottom of the supplied ICBC safety inspection form.
With the money some people have invested into their boats I am surprized that the marine industry has not put something similar in place. Why does it have to be a crap shoot?
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  #38  
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Re: Insurance rant - How would you respond

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Originally Posted by Dog Ship View Post
Dude, I have made myself very clear about how I feel toward marine surveyors, banks and insurance companies many times on this website. If you have something else to contribute to this thread then go ahead, otherwise......
You can hold onto any opinion you want but when those ideas are in error you must be called on it. You contribute nothing when you spread falsehoods. Saying surveyors have no accreditation is false. Whether you like surveyors or not is of little value. So unless you have something truthful and of value to contribute then go ahead, otherwise...
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  #39  
Old 05-03-2013
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Re: Insurance rant - How would you respond

"Why does it have to be a crap shoot? "
Why are doctors required to be tested and licensed and reviewed and attend professional education after four years of special schooling and further apprenticeship [sic] and still, they mistreat and kill a quarter million people a year in the US alone? From all sorts of totally avoidable errors.
And you think the insurance industry is going to find, train, and certify surveyors to a better standard?

I think it is a crapshoot because anything else would be incredibly expensive and not at all effective.

Minne-
You may have a great doctor, but have you ever tried to interview around to FIND one if you need one? You can ask friends, if they've had the same needs or you're looking for a GP. But to "try one on" or even interview their offices? In many places now, older independent MD's are either retiring or moving onto hospital staff, because they don't want to spend the money to computerize their office. (Which means they haven't been using computers for 20 years, which means they are lousy practice managers, but that's something else again.) And once they join a staff someplace, they're often rated on metrics and spending 1/2 hour with a patient needs to be justified--or they're fired.
Time are changing and sadly "Dewey, Screwem & Howe" is no longer a comedy.

Insurers? You can dig up ratings, you can ask around, but for the average customer listening to the little green lizard has some appeal. After all, you've never heard a little lizard lie, have you?

Didn't think so, neither have I. "Idiocracy". (sigh)
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  #40  
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Re: Insurance rant - How would you respond

You name me one university, college or government recognized trade school that offers a diploma or a degree or a government recognized trade certificate that states you are a marine surveyor and I will eat every word I have typed.
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