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post #41 of 52 Old 05-03-2013
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Re: Insurance rant - How would you respond

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You can hold onto any opinion you want but when those ideas are in error you must be called on it. You contribute nothing when you spread falsehoods. Saying surveyors have no accreditation is false. Whether you like surveyors or not is of little value. So unless you have something truthful and of value to contribute then go ahead, otherwise...
Just so you know, marine surveyors are in the same category as home inspectors, there is no government regulated requirement, like doctors, or lawyers, or insurance companies.

There are however, organizations that have established themselves as regulators for the business itself. They define the group to help the business have meaning.

If you can join the group you are deemed to have conformed to their polices and therefore accepted by the community as accredited. But, joining the group is defined by paying your dues and meeting a certain number of hours of training.

Building Inspectors, General Contractors, are really the only group in this category that actual have to take a state sponsored test to be able to do business.

Home inspectors and marine survivors are really a group of guys, and girls, who have created a business for insurance companies. Some are good and some not so good. Just hope they have done more than just paid their dues to join the club that gives them accountability.

I once was Home Inspector.
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post #42 of 52 Old 05-04-2013
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Re: Insurance rant - How would you respond

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Originally Posted by ebs001 View Post
You can hold onto any opinion you want but when those ideas are in error you must be called on it. You contribute nothing when you spread falsehoods. Saying surveyors have no accreditation is false. Whether you like surveyors or not is of little value. So unless you have something truthful and of value to contribute then go ahead, otherwise...
You name me one university, college or government recognized trade school that offers a diploma or a degree or a government recognized trade certificate that states you are a marine surveyor and I will eat every word I have typed.

I'm not going to stoop so low as to call anyone a liar but I am calling you on this ebs001.

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post #43 of 52 Old 05-04-2013
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Re: Insurance rant - How would you respond

Chapman School of Seamanship - Credentials

http://www.chapman.org/p/58/about-yscs

Capt. Wayne Canning, AMS

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post #44 of 52 Old 05-04-2013
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Re: Insurance rant - How would you respond

This course does not offer a diploma, degree or a trade certificate. It does offer a graduation certificate that is issued by the school itself.
http://www.chapman.org/uploads/docs/...chure-2013.pdf

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Last edited by Dog Ship; 05-04-2013 at 12:46 PM.
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post #45 of 52 Old 05-04-2013
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Re: Insurance rant - How would you respond

Now the only question is whether anyone recognizes a certificate from Chapman. The trade associations won't take it in place of their experience criteria, will they?

Will insurers accept oit as a credential to hire someone as a surveyor?
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post #46 of 52 Old 05-05-2013
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Re: Insurance rant - How would you respond

A graduation certificate is nothing more than a participation certificate. It shows that you have completed a course and you have achieved the expected standards of the school, not the industry.
A 180 hour course is simply an introduction into this industry.
This certificate means nothing outside of this college.
I would hope that when marine surveying becomes a recognized trade or a profession that the standards are as high or higher than what SAMS is teaching and not what some college has decided will be the trade standard.
Any thoughts on that ebs001?

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post #47 of 52 Old 05-05-2013
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Re: Insurance rant - How would you respond

I'm not sure that SAMS OR NAMS standards need to be any different, but it seems they could be better monitored or more selectively awarded.

For example, why not have a process where the organization does quality control checks with random recipients of a survey.


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post #48 of 52 Old 05-05-2013
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Re: Insurance rant - How would you respond

As far as training I agree that SAMS has it together. The problem with SAMS is they are making a lot of money for doing very little.
If you have the opportunity to train people to your own standards, charge them what ever you want and have no recourse from anyone to dispute what you are doing, well thats a monopoly.
Why would you give that up too compitition from every university, college and trade school across north america. You would be shooting yourself in the financial foot. I believe this is part of the reason why marine surveying is not a recognized trade or profession as there is no incentive to do so. The other reason is there is just too much for one person to know and ultimately train someone to know.
There are far to many systems on a boat for any one person to have a complete grasp on everything. What would be a better way is for ticketed tradesmen to inspect each system. A marine electrician can focus on the wiring, a marine mechanic can inspect the propulsion systems, a marine engineer can focus on structure and so on.
What I don't agree with is an uncontrolled industry having such power over people and their assets.
When I hear someone say ,"I can run circles around any surveyor". Well thats the last guy I would want to hire to survey my boat, but that's what you get with an unregulated industry.
A self policing industry that does it's own quality control checks won't work either as there is an element for back patting which seems to already exsist.
I tend to look at marine surveyors this way; it's like giving someone your watch and then asking them what time it is.
What are your thoughts on that ebs001?

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post #49 of 52 Old 05-05-2013
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Re: Insurance rant - How would you respond

So what are your thoughts on this topic ebs001?
All you have contributed so far is to accuse me of spreading misstruths, basically calling me a liar. Then you offer nothing to back up what you say????. wtf

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post #50 of 52 Old 05-05-2013
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Re: Insurance rant - How would you respond

dogship, that school does have state and national accredations, and that status does indeed give their certificates and degrees some status as legitimate. A certificate program may not be a "trade" certificate and it may be less than a full degree, but then again, they're all on the same par.

It is indeed a certificate, from an accredited source, which seems to consider a "degree" in that niche as not necessary. Most of today's degrees, including doctorates, are established in exactly the same way. Whatever an academic or guild decided they should be. Attorneys promoted themselves from bachelorates (LLB) to doctorates (JD) without changing the materials involved at all. MDs, dentists, chiropractors, osteopaths, continue to wage wars but all practice "medicine".

180 hours of training as a surveyor? Do you really need more than that to tell when something is broken? It is a formal course, program, curriculum. That's the start of a "standard".
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