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post #11 of 64 Old 05-06-2013
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Re: Performance Cruisers and Racer/Cruisers

It amazes me that boats similar to a C&C 37+ are not among the top sellers. To me it has it all. Great looks, a below deck layout to woo the most discriminating spouse and racy performance to win the performance sailors heart.

View Boat Photos - YachtWorld.com

Why has this design philosophy languished while lard assed tub prevail?

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1991 Catalina 36
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post #12 of 64 Old 05-06-2013
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Re: Performance Cruisers and Racer/Cruisers

There is a C&C 37+ here in Seattle:
Swiftsure Yachts (Seattle, WA)

I have been very happy in my dealings with Swiftsure.. I've been aboard this boat. She looks fast and seems to be well maintained. Huge aft cabin which will come at the expense of aft storage..

Looks like a recent price reduction.

David

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"They drove a dump truck full of money up to my house. I'm not made of stone!" -Krusty the Clown
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post #13 of 64 Old 05-06-2013
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Re: Performance Cruisers and Racer/Cruisers

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Originally Posted by Faster View Post
...

The 40.7 would be a notch up, I'd expect and should be a good one too. I'm not sure that there's anything readily available in the NA market that would beat any of the 'Firsts' on that comparison scale (performance AND comfort cruising) except perhaps the J 109 and her larger sisters.. but cost is a big factor there.

If you're following PCPs thread you'll know there are plenty of Euro models that would suit.. shame they are not more widely marketed here though they'd likely be very expensive if they were.
Faster, if someone is thinking in buying a relatively recent 37/40ft performance boat the best place to do it is Europe and with some luck in French Martinique.

The choice is much bigger and the prices better. I say a relatively recent boat because a recent one (10 year old boat) if well chose will be ready with a minimal preparation to cross the Atlantic.

I agree the First 40.7 is a great boat but there are performance boats with better interior. Probably the best deal in what money regards is the Dufour 40 but you have plenty interesting boats: Salona 37, Elan 37, Elan 40, Comet 38 and 41, GrandSoleil 37 and 40, wauquiez 41, Dehler 36 and 39, not to mention more expensive Nordic boats like x 37 and 40, Arcona 400 and 37, Finngulf 37 and many others.

Sometimes the prices in the used market of what where once very expensive boats is surprisingly close to the price what where much less expensive boats. Probably the best places to buy boats now is Portugal, Spain and specially Italy where Grandsoleils and Comets can be bought at less than half the price.

For the ones that are eventually interested I know of a nice dealer that works with Grand Soleil and sell boats with a one year warranty (given by Grand Soleil).

Regards

Paulo


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Last edited by PCP; 05-06-2013 at 06:44 PM.
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post #14 of 64 Old 05-06-2013
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Re: Performance Cruisers and Racer/Cruisers

Yes, Paulo... Our friends bought their 36.7 new in Guadeloupe for a very good price indeed, and were able to get the tiller version they wanted. It had been a demo and came with a pricey B&G electronics suite too. As Eastern Carib island hopping was on their agenda it was a perfect fit. Now going on 12 years it's served them well - though definitely not the "norm" amongst cruisers there.

Ron

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post #15 of 64 Old 05-06-2013
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Re: Performance Cruisers and Racer/Cruisers

Beneteau 36.7's are nice boats with reasonably good performance. We have our boat's name on the transom of our J/36 in letters 12" high so that the crews with binoculars on the 36.7's can still read who it was that beat them. Coming from a Santana, some of the suggestions above will seem pedestrian. It's going to boil down to what sort of performance/cruising comfort/cost balance you want. When we every now and then pass a J/109 boat-for-boat, we think how happy we are not to have spent five or six times as much as we did. We also enjoy fresh Maine blueberries in muffins hot from the oven. (Do J/109's even have ovens?) All the little things add up to what you enjoy the most. Happy hunting!
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post #16 of 64 Old 05-06-2013
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Re: Performance Cruisers and Racer/Cruisers

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Beneteau 36.7's are nice boats with reasonably good performance. We have our boat's name on the transom of our J/36 in letters 12" high so that the crews with binoculars on the 36.7's can still read who it was that beat them. Coming from a Santana, some of the suggestions above will seem pedestrian. It's going to boil down to what sort of performance/cruising comfort/cost balance you want. When we every now and then pass a J/109 boat-for-boat, we think how happy we are not to have spent five or six times as much as we did. We also enjoy fresh Maine blueberries in muffins hot from the oven. (Do J/109's even have ovens?) All the little things add up to what you enjoy the most. Happy hunting!
A bit confused with the performance of the J36. For what I can tell the boat has a PHRF of about 81 while the Benetau 36.7 have about 78 and the J 109 with 78 has about the same as the 36.7. Both the 36.7 and the J109 sailed to their rating should be faster.

J/Boats PHRF Sailing Performance Comparison Table

Of course it all depends on the particular boat (in what regards the J 109 and the First 36.7) but if you look to this IRC list organized by boat speed you will see the 36.7 mixed with the J109 (depending on the particular boat) and also with the Dehler 36 or Elan 37, X 37, C&C 110 and Finngulf 37. in what regards sailing performance and cruising all these boats have a very close performance (along with the First 35). Some have a much better cruising interiors than others.

http://www.blur.se/polar/IRC_rating.pdf

Probably what makes your boat faster is good sailing

Regards

Paulo


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post #17 of 64 Old 05-06-2013
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Re: Performance Cruisers and Racer/Cruisers

Having raced on and against a well sailed J36 I can attest that they are much faster on the water than they appear to be on paper. As Paulk correctly observed, they have a fair number of amenities for cruising comfort at a very reasonable price. The problem I see is that there just aren't very many of them for sale.
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post #18 of 64 Old 05-06-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Performance Cruisers and Racer/Cruisers

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Originally Posted by PalmettoSailor View Post
It amazes me that boats similar to a C&C 37+ are not among the top sellers. To me it has it all. Great looks, a below deck layout to woo the most discriminating spouse and racy performance to win the performance sailors heart.

View Boat Photos - YachtWorld.com

Why has this design philosophy languished while lard assed tub prevail?
I have always liked the look of those C&Cs, and they certainly appear to have a lot of comfort. I didn't realize that the transom opened up for the swim ladder! That reverse transom is one thing that really dates the design. People like the nice wide open transoms of more modern boats, and of course the extra beam aft means more space aft!

I should find a local 37+ to have a look at. I know my wife would LOVE that aft stateroom!

What is the difference between the 37+ and the 37R? (And why do they call it a 37+ when it is actually a 40? )

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post #19 of 64 Old 05-06-2013
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Re: Performance Cruisers and Racer/Cruisers

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Originally Posted by FarCry View Post
Having raced on and against a well sailed J36 I can attest that they are much faster on the water than they appear to be on paper. As Paulk correctly observed, they have a fair number of amenities for cruising comfort at a very reasonable price. The problem I see is that there just aren't very many of them for sale.
Thanks! We've had our J/36 since 1999, and have enjoyed winning the club championship several times against some obviously hot competition, as well as cruising between New York City and Northeast Harbor, Maine. We've hit 12.5 knots in a blow with just a reefed main up, and 13 knots with the full main, spinnaker and 150% genoa all up at once. Though fast is fun, we've also spent days at anchor, simply relaxing, or perhaps baking blueberry muffins. Eclipse is not for sale (sorry!). There were only about 40 J/36's built, but a good number seem to have migrated to the PNW/Seattle area. J/35's are more common, but lack some of the creature comforts we enjoy unless they've been customized. Around here, we rate 84 PHRF (87 with a roller-furler) while the Beneteau 36.7 rates 93 for 'round the buoys racing. J/109's rate 66. (J/105's rate 96, but you can't stand up below, so why bother?) The J/35 rates 78, and we've passed every one we've raced against as well. The advantage of PHRF is that it adjusts ratings to prevalent local conditions and thus makes the rating more valid than IRC with it's "one size fits all conditions" approach. There are a lot of boats out there. Check them out!
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post #20 of 64 Old 05-06-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Performance Cruisers and Racer/Cruisers

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Originally Posted by djodenda View Post
There is a C&C 37+ here in Seattle:
Swiftsure Yachts (Seattle, WA)

I have been very happy in my dealings with Swiftsure.. I've been aboard this boat. She looks fast and seems to be well maintained. Huge aft cabin which will come at the expense of aft storage..

Looks like a recent price reduction.
That one looks like a very well set up and cared for boat! It is a bit older than we intended to get, but the model definitely is on my radar now!

1979 Santana 30 Tall Rig
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