Performance Cruisers and Racer/Cruisers - Page 3 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree4Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 05-06-2013
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 14,609
Thanks: 67
Thanked 179 Times in 175 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
Re: Performance Cruisers and Racer/Cruisers

The diff between the 37+ and 37R is in the interior fit, layout and deck gear/rig. Cruisier more conservative in the +, more austere and more sophisticated respectively in the R. Hopefully you can find comparison pictures on YW. The 37 series is 40 feet long, as the sister 34 is really 36.

They are a big boat.. there's a 37+ on our float at Fisherman's Floats in False Creek, C Dock 2/3 the way down on the right if you want a close up exterior look.
__________________
Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)

Last edited by Faster; 05-06-2013 at 11:45 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #22  
Old 05-06-2013
mbetter's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 73
Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Rep Power: 5
mbetter is on a distinguished road
Re: Performance Cruisers and Racer/Cruisers

Bene 367s have a very active class in lots of places, more so than most of the other Benes and similar. If I was looking for a cruiser/racer on Lake Michigan, I'd probably go with a 367 or a J-105, I think.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #23  
Old 05-07-2013
blt2ski's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,678
Thanks: 0
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 10
blt2ski will become famous soon enough
Re: Performance Cruisers and Racer/Cruisers

Shock,

A lot of the Jeanneau's with the 2 cabin/sleep area floorplans have that BIG storage area you can get into via a cockpit seat lift, OR thru a door in the shower. THe SO/SF35 and 37 have this options, as does the newer 36i/36iP and 39' versions. I have not been aboard the new 379 or 409, but would assume that they to with a 2 cabin option and that BIG head area, will have access to the aft storage. I know of one person that installed a genset in this area. Not sure I would do the genset they choose to do, ie a gas honda......but I believe some of the what and how in Europe is a bit different than here.

I know the owner of the sf35 that is listed, May still have a c# for him if you want to talk to him direct.

Marty
__________________
She drives me boat,
I drives me dinghy!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #24  
Old 05-07-2013
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,162
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: Performance Cruisers and Racer/Cruisers

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulk View Post
... Around here, we rate 84 PHRF (87 with a roller-furler) while the Beneteau 36.7 rates 93 for 'round the buoys racing. J/109's rate 66. (J/105's rate 96, but you can't stand up below, so why bother?) The J/35 rates 78, and we've passed every one we've raced against as well. The advantage of PHRF is that it adjusts ratings to prevalent local conditions and thus makes the rating more valid than IRC with it's "one size fits all conditions" approach. There are a lot of boats out there. Check them out!
I don't know were you got that number for the First 36.7 (87) but it is not an average one unless it is a shoal draft version and even among those the average will be 82. There are some in the US but they are rare and not the standard version. For what I can tell I would say that an average PHRF for a standard would be between 75 and 78.

In what regards a global PHRF on a standard draft the US the numbers are these:

BC Sailing (1) 78
Charleston (1) 78
Chesepeake (9) 75
Detroit 75 (3) 75
Galveston Bay (2) 78
Gulf PHRF 78 (1) 78
KWRace 78 (1) 78
Lake Erie 75 (3) 75
Lake Michigan (7) 75
Lake Ontario (6) 69
Lake champlain 78
Mid Atlantic (1) 75
Narragansett Bay (6)78
New England (1) 78
Nova Scotia (3) 74
YRALIS (2) 81

:::: FIRST 36.7 ::::

Phrf apart, or even included, the J36 seems to be a great and fast performance cruiser, specially taking into consideration its age, price and good cruising interior.

Regards

Paulo
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by PCP; 05-07-2013 at 07:08 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #25  
Old 05-07-2013
paulk's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: CT/ Long Island Sound
Posts: 2,533
Thanks: 4
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 15
paulk is on a distinguished road
Re: Performance Cruisers and Racer/Cruisers

Paulo- All I know is that around here we beat well-sailed B 36.7's almost all the time when we're racing. One passed us once, when they caught a puff that missed us by 200 feet.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #26  
Old 05-08-2013
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,162
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: Performance Cruisers and Racer/Cruisers

Congratulations, it seems you have a very good crew

Probably it means also that the 36.7 that race on those parts have a shallow keel or the crews are not that good. It is not to be expected that after so many years the ratings of the First 36,7 would be incorrect, I mean not one, but the huge majority.

Regards

Paulo
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #27  
Old 05-08-2013
Jeff_H's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 6,559
Thanks: 5
Thanked 92 Times in 69 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about
Re: Performance Cruisers and Racer/Cruisers

Paulo,

The ratings on J-36's vary with region a little more widely than the 36.7 or J-35. Rod Johnstone swears that the J-36 should have equal speed to a J-35 in most conditions (except light air)and a J-35 generally rates faster than a First 36.7. I have sailed the 36.7 and my impression is that it is less forgiving and not as easy to sail to its rating as the 40.7 which is a boat that I know really well and love for its capabilities. Because the 36.7 is hard to keep at speed they are hard to rate, meaning they take absolutely first rate gear and a really skilled crew to sail to their rating. The J-36 is much more forgiving and so in the hands of a skilled crew can be more consistent, even if its rating were acurate an dit is perhaps a slightly slower boat.

Jeff
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Curmudgeon at Large- and rhinestone in the rough, sailing my Farr 11.6 on the Chesapeake Bay and part-time purveyor of marine supplies
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #28  
Old 05-08-2013
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,162
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: Performance Cruisers and Racer/Cruisers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
Paulo,

The ratings on J-36's vary with region a little more widely than the 36.7 or J-35. Rod Johnstone swears that the J-36 should have equal speed to a J-35 in most conditions (except light air)and a J-35 generally rates faster than a First 36.7. I have sailed the 36.7 and my impression is that it is less forgiving and not as easy to sail to its rating as the 40.7 which is a boat that I know really well and love for its capabilities. Because the 36.7 is hard to keep at speed they are hard to rate, meaning they take absolutely first rate gear and a really skilled crew to sail to their rating. The J-36 is much more forgiving and so in the hands of a skilled crew can be more consistent, even if its rating were acurate an dit is perhaps a slightly slower boat.

Jeff
Probably you are right but in what regards the comparative performance of J boats they have nailed it pretty well here:

J/Boats PHRF Sailing Performance Comparison Table

and between the J35 and the J36 there is a big difference, or at least the guys from Jboats have found so in testing : 75/75 to 81/84 in what regards PHRF.

Regards

Paulo
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by PCP; 05-08-2013 at 05:14 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #29  
Old 05-08-2013
SchockT's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: North Vancouver, BC
Posts: 1,413
Thanks: 1
Thanked 26 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 3
SchockT is on a distinguished road
Re: Performance Cruisers and Racer/Cruisers

I learned a long time ago that arguing about PHRF ratings, and whether they are correct or not is pointless. There are so many variables to take into account that there are no universally correct ratings. Clearly in PaulK's experience, in the conditions they sail in, the J-boat is consistently faster. I am sure you could find other jurisdictions where the opposite is true.

While there may be lots of 36.7s out there, that doesn't mean that they have a solid and accurate rating. There is a tendency for PHRF ratings to stagnate on active one-design classes. The rating system is designed for a rating to evolve based on historical performance on a boat, and if most of the boats are not in the PHRF fleets their handicap doesn't evolve.

Other than the fact that both boats would fall into the same division, I don't think they can be compared. They are very different boats that are several generations apart, not to mention many thousands of dollars apart in price!
__________________
1979 Santana 30 Tall Rig
Hull#101
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #30  
Old 05-08-2013
svShearwater's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Austin
Posts: 25
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
svShearwater is on a distinguished road
Re: Performance Cruisers and Racer/Cruisers

Definitely one of the fastest performance cruisers you can get in that range is the J/120. Cheaper than a new(er) J/109 and comparable price to the B36.7, but you get 4 more feet and a rating in the low 50's. Not only does the J/120 sail fantastic, but it has a roomy, not cluttered interior. The v-berth is huge, the quarterberth is decent, there is a huge "garage" on the port side for storing things instead of the dreaded second quarterberth.

Unless you just like newness I find it hard to argue in favor of a J/109 or B36.7.

Another greater performance cruiser that hasn't been mentioned in that size range is the Aerodyne 38. Rates in the 40's. The interior is spartan compared to the J/120 and they cost more. We looked at several of both and the J/120 was definitely the more cruising friendly of the two. In the end the interior sold us on the J/120. It was the fastest boat in our price that had an interior we really liked. We can race it double-handed, cruise the PNW at speed, or cross the Atlantic easily. Color me happy with our choice so far.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
help for old cruisers madoc General Discussion (sailing related) 5 07-27-2011 07:45 PM
Any E-32 cruisers here? MarioG Endeavour 2 11-22-2010 12:45 PM
list of seaworthy performance cruisers-IOR devemaster Boat Review and Purchase Forum 26 12-07-2009 03:38 PM
Cruisers Net kwaltersmi General Discussion (sailing related) 1 12-13-2007 02:40 PM
Looking at 35-38'' cruisers jgoldshlag Boat Review and Purchase Forum 11 02-15-2002 04:16 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:33 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.