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  #121  
Old 05-13-2013
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
In the world of yacht racing - I never take anyone at his word. Heh-heh.
Could be the difference. I mostly deal with people that sail or are watermen/women, not yachties.
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  #122  
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Sorry - I meant Mills and Bertelli (not Barclay). I still stand by the comment though. They talk about safety - they think about cost. I have little doubt about that.

Think about it- no one is keeping them from designing a wing full of holes that can be fully depowered in a turn. Of course, they wouldn't be competitive, and we're back to cost.
Are they dropping out now because its too dangerous- or because its a done dream. Why throw good money after bad if you know you can't finish out a campaign. Risk mitigation at work. It goes like this- hmmm for a few more million we can get Halfway through this campaign and then drop out once we total (if we toTal) the other boat...the PR sure will play well if we drop out - no one will think us chickens hit. We can then rally behind the official investigation and possibly it will result in a platform we can win on next year."

So- maybe they will drop out. It seems like a sound way to mitigate unexcesary risk exposure for them at this time. And yes I mean financial- for though no one wants to see sailors die unecessilry- (come on auto spell- why are you abandoning me) no one really cares either- though the meek platitudes we offer strangers probably help us sleep at night.
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  #123  
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

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Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
And tell us about your adventures.
One time I was sailing a sunfish and it capsized and I was stung by jellyfish- over and over as I attempted to right the craft- yikes!! Quite an adventure. (I felt like crappy equipment was in play there- so I sure do sympathize with the dudes on those ac72 clunkers)


One time- I was sailing on a hobie 16 and pitchpoled. Wow! What an adventure and yardsale.

This other time I was in California and a guy got hit on the side of the head by a bear trying to eat his cooler (the guys- not the bears) and we had to put his ear back on with duck tape an paper towels. Admittedly that was more his adventure than mine- but wow was it a big adventure.

There was another one, but it wasn't that exciting. I went to a movie one time - this is in a theater mind you- and my sister- we are going way back now, ET was the film- my sister, a few years younger than me got fruit punch as a drink and it was so far from anything she had experienced in the world of drink that she began shrieking at full 3 year old volume "they're poisoning me" over and over and had to be taken out of the theater.


So there ya go- I think that's got it covered.
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  #124  
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Here is a great link to Ted Turner and Walter Cronkite.

"Sports is like war without the killing."

My mother wouldn't let me play football.

I told my son he couldn't have a motorcycle in college.

I have had a couple motorcycle crashes.

My son told me about his motorcycle after I had no purse strings to pull.

Now I ride my motorcycle without a helmet when legal. My girl likes speed. I like safety and speed when prudent.

Sport is not to die. Or risk death. More risk on my couch than riding my bicycle on the streets. Which I do often.

Went to see the (boxing) Golden Gloves Championship at age 18. The crowd was not stirred by good boxing. When the lanky guy in the heavy weight division turned the stump's face into hamburger the crowd went wild. That is not sport. Haven't been back.

Last edited by hasher; 05-13-2013 at 10:30 PM.
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  #125  
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Ah screw it

Last edited by c. breeze; 05-13-2013 at 10:38 PM.
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  #126  
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

I can't get the link to work.

It was Ted Turner's quote.

I am just throwing out a little thought on risk and how we evaluate it.

I am very comfortable with the risks I take. I'd like my children to minimize their risks. My mother was the same.

I know people like to see the envelope pushed and call it sport.

Look at Hockey. Look at Football. Yes, the participants aren't forced at gunpoint. But they are lured by money. Look at the issue with concussions today. There is a blood lust with the fans. NASCAR is big where I live.

Don't float a boat that won't float. If you do, don't call it sport.

Just an opinion.
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  #127  
Old 05-14-2013
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

I don't think safety is even factored into the designs of these boat. They are designing the boat to go fast. They are then strapping O2 tanks on the crew and stocking the first aid kit on the chase boats to mitigate the danger in the designs. Safety is secondary to speed, durability is secondary to speed. These are super wealthy, super competitive individuals backing these campaigns to take home the cup. The sailors on the boat are also super competitive and willing to put it all out there to take home the cup. Everything is secondary to speed and winning.

Besides the chance of catastrophic failure and pitchpoling there is the chance of collision with these ultra high speed non maneuverable boats. Having watched the previous cat races, I feel that also has the potential for fatalities. There are a lot of ways that these boats are dangerous.

The comparison to Nascar is not really accurate. As Nascar as a sport has been evolving for decades. America's Cup changes venue and boat parameters every 3 years. These drag racing cats have been being developed for a few years. The drag racing cats 3 years from now there will be different parameters and different boats.

I think any crash or tragedy will cause a new band aid added to the racing of boats that are dangerous. Each crash will also teach ways to help mitigate the dangers. I believe in the recent death the sailor was missing for a while before being discovered.

I would think lessons learned is
Better accounting of crew after crashes.
More support boats with rescue divers.

Maybe the cup itself can provide a fleet of safety boats to supplement the team boats. Knifes and O2 bottles won't help an incapacitated sailor and the potential for that to happen on these boats seams greater than in past AC races.
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  #128  
Old 05-14-2013
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

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Originally Posted by jephotog View Post

The comparison to Nascar is not really accurate. As Nascar as a sport has been evolving for decades. America's Cup changes venue and boat parameters every 3 years. These drag racing cats have been being developed for a few years. The drag racing cats 3 years from now there will be different parameters and different boats.
I think this is a critical issue and likely a reason why this debate will rage on for years. Whoever wins the cup next may likely change the boats to water ballasted sharpies. In just a few years teams will have to fund R&D, test and train crews on what I am sure will be the fastest sharpie to ever touch its keel to water. These teams do not have the luxury of decades to refine their designs and technologies to ensure all the air-bags and bumpers are adequate enough to keep the lawyers at bay. You take the current technologies and push them as far as you can in the time allotted and then hold on to your ass and compete.

The level of accomplishment these people must feel is overwhelming, as I'm sure their sorrow is overwhelming when there is a tragedy. However, they won't stop; human spirit being what it is will always move forward and push the limit of whatever frontier it can find. It defines us as a species.
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  #129  
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Sorry - I meant Mills and Bertelli (not Barclay). I still stand by the comment though. They talk about safety - they think about cost. I have little doubt about that.

Think about it- no one is keeping them from designing a wing full of holes that can be fully depowered in a turn. Of course, they wouldn't be competitive, and we're back to cost.
Safety would be a convenient excuse. However, plenty of teams bailed by saying it cost too much and the boat is disposable anyway, even if it completes the race. Not really sure why they need the excuse, what's the additional cost if you wreck it and then bail. If they're not really worried about safety, they could just pound away until they're out of boats.

If you mean the financial liability of hurting someone, that's safety.

The LV cup is probably going to settle this one way or the other. For better or worse. Seriously injure or kill another crew member and I'll bet the AC goes on ice. I would not be surprised to see race restrictions on wind speed and/or wave height before this happens.
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  #130  
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

That issue right there is to me the crux of why these boats aren't the answer. Forget that they are disposable- forget that they exist or this one series of events exclusively and will never be heard from or seen again. It's that we end up with a boat that is too one dimensional from a performance standpoint. The safety issue doesn't bother me, I'm comfortable with people taking their lives in their own hands. It's the fact that we have an event tailored to spectators- but are going to end up with races cancelled because of what- it was windy that day??? I say you run what you brung- and the idea of some real carnage on the course has some appeal- sailing those boats to the absolute edge of what man has conceived of- controlled flight between two mediums- it's brilliant- but I say in for a penny - in for a pound, and the fact that its blowing 35 with 9-10 swell is no reason to cancel the event. In fact- maybe NOT canceling races is all the encouragement teams will need to more well rounded designs. Sure- I want to see big ass cats go twice the wind speed- but it would be even cooler if after a pitchpole or capsize they got out and ha to right the boat and keep sailing.

Bottom line- if you offer an "out" due to weather- you will see boats that can't handle weather. You want safer rides- then don't cancel races because of weather. Period. You will see more robus designs with a sail or wing that is "reefable" because it'll be known the new this boat HAS to function whether its blowing 6knots or 35 knots.

Box rule match racing is as exciting as it gets- whether I watch a blow out due to superior technology/ exploitation of the rule- or if the boat are evenly matched and its super tactical.




Edit: I'm not opposed to a weather call- but changing the standard now, mid stream, sends the wrong message- and will proliferate increasingly one dimensional designs in this event.
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Last edited by c. breeze; 05-14-2013 at 07:58 AM.
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