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  #171  
Old 05-15-2013
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

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Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Agree with Jon on this one. We've watched AC in light air off S.D. and heavy air more then once. These boats are fascinating but a distortion - a very small segment- of what sailing is about. It has become a ninch race. Much like the boarders and planers racing in ditches to get flat water while they go for speed records. Like the difference between the salt flats and general road racing. This is not to take away from the technology, skill and courage of this endeavor but it makes for high light films not not engagement for the general public.
And the Tour de France is a very small segment of what bike riders are about
And formula 1 is a small segment of what driving a car is about
And so on.

These guys are pushing the edge
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  #172  
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

I'm trying to think of another sport where some major teams and/or high profile professionals are saying their event or sport has become too dangerous. That's distinct from someone who may think its time to reduce danger they've been accepting all along. This is the case of professionals in the sport saying this new evolution has gone too far too fast, without sufficient engineering around safety.

The discussion has never been about whether there should be any danger, but some continually try to paint the other safer point of view into that corner. It's about whether they have gone beyond the cutting edge, into the bleeding edge.

On another point, this is the cache resume race of a lifetime. No other matches it, IMO. Not every crew member will have multiple shots at it. I would be curious how many crew do repeat. Maybe that's changing, now that they're paid. The few I've met over the years only got in one race. I may try to track one down and see what he thinks of this new format and the risks his younger colleagues are taking.
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  #173  
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
And the Tour de France is a very small segment of what bike riders are about
And formula 1 is a small segment of what driving a car is about
And so on.

These guys are pushing the edge
Many different ways of pushing the edge...

Personally, I am FAR more impressed by what this kid did last year, than anything Larry Ellison will spend tens of million$ to accomplish on SF Bay this year... If any sailor has truly and so purely demonstrated the "indomitable will to adapt and overcome" - to borrow c. breeze's words - it's Matt Rutherford:

Sailor Matt Rutherford welcomed home in Annapolis after sailing solo around the Americas - Washington Post

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The entire trip cost around $35,000, all things included. At this point we have raised over $100,000 for CRAB and the number is still rising. So thank you all for your contributions. Until next time.

Solo Around the America's Under Sail | An audacious attempt at sailing the Northwest Passage and circumnavigating entirety of both continents, to benefit Chesapeake Region Accessible Boating



To be clear, I was among those who expressed doubts about the likely success of Rutherford's venture from the beginning... He certainly proved me wrong, and I can only hope the AC guys manage to do so, as well...
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

That trip is totally mind blowing. The mental fortitude it required not too mention plenty of extremely "technical" sailing. A stunner for sure.
And I appreciate that sentiment of hoping the AC guys make it too- but the fatalism... It's just overplayed. I know that you as well as all of us are going to be pretty giddy and bubbly for a little while if this race does come off without another catastrophe. But it will still all be tainted, because a guy died. Bu the problem is- it'll be more than that- it'll be "a guy died- and there were rich guys imcolved" and all the connotations that come with it.



People can hate Larry Ellison because he's spent millions developing a toy, while praising Matt Rutherford for raising money for a charity- but it just starts to sound like a social agenda more than anything at that point- especially if they were a naysayer until Matt was successful. But when you keep it at the sailing level- there's not a lot of difference- Matt was going to go if it didn't raise 6 dollars- Larry's gonna go if it costs 50 million. The commitment to the challenge is there regardless. Those two guys were going to find or make a way for that trip they were on because they had to.
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Last edited by c. breeze; 05-15-2013 at 10:08 AM.
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

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Originally Posted by PalmettoSailor View Post
Jon,

Would you not agree that these boats have shifted the paradigm to the point these guys are somewhat out of their experience zone?

Yes, 25 knots on any of our boats is not that big a deal, then again we won't be doing 35-40 knots in that wind.

I think its more accurate to say, turning any sailboat that's doing 35-40 knots is going to be terrifying.
I don't know, when a guy like Grant Dalton makes such a statement, I'll sit up and take notice... I don't believe these boats are that far out of his "experience zone", after all...

He would have seen similar speeds aboard a boat almost twice as large, on CLUB MED during The Race... Among the mountainous seas of the Southern Ocean, at night, while basically circumnavigating Antarctica... Thousands of miles from land, no team support or rescue boats on scene, the possibility of a quick rescue slim to none, the prospect of a man overboard likely ensuring a fatality...

For him to say that sailing these AC72s in a breeze of 25+ knots in the comparatively protected waters of SF Bay, with instant assistance/rescue/medical treatment close at hand, is "terrifying"... well, considering the source, that speaks volumes, to me...

BTW, for anyone who hasn't read Tim Zimmerman's THE RACE, I recommend it highly - a terrific read...

Amazon.com: The Race: Extreme Sailing and Its Ultimate Event: Nonstop, Round-the-World, No Holds Barred (9780618382705): Tim Zimmermann: Books Amazon.com: The Race: Extreme Sailing and Its Ultimate Event: Nonstop, Round-the-World, No Holds Barred (9780618382705): Tim Zimmermann: Books


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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
I'm trying to think of another sport where some major teams and/or high profile professionals are saying their event or sport has become too dangerous. That's distinct from someone who may think its time to reduce danger they've been accepting all along. This is the case of professionals in the sport saying this new evolution has gone too far too fast, without sufficient engineering around safety.

g.
Football has a major lawsuit concerning concussions I believe
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  #177  
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Many different ways of pushing the edge...

Personally, I am FAR more impressed by what this kid did last year, than anything Larry Ellison will spend tens of million$ to accomplish on SF Bay this year... If any sailor has truly and so purely demonstrated the "indomitable will to adapt and overcome" - to borrow c. breeze's words - it's Matt Rutherford:

Sailor Matt Rutherford welcomed home in Annapolis after sailing solo around the Americas - Washington Post






To be clear, I was among those who expressed doubts about the likely success of Rutherford's venture from the beginning... He certainly proved me wrong, and I can only hope the AC guys manage to do so, as well...
I agree about Matt. I met him in Annapolis a few months ago at a speaking engagement. Quite a story.
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  #178  
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Football has a major lawsuit concerning concussions I believe
That's an example of wanting to reduce a risk that has been accepted up until now, not one that was increased as a result of taking on more risk. Exactly what the AC should be doing, but first took a huge step backwards.
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  #179  
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by c. breeze View Post

People can hate Larry Ellison because he's spent millions developing a toy, while praising Matt Rutherford for raising money for a charity- but it just starts to sound like a social agenda more than anything at that point- especially if they were a naysayer until Matt was successful. But when you keep it at the sailing level- there's not a lot of difference- Matt was going to go if it didn't raise 6 dollars- Larry's gonna go if it costs 50 million. The commitment to the challenge is there regardless. Those two guys were going to find or make a way for that trip they were on because they had to.
For the record, I don't "hate" Larry Ellison...

While he does not appear to be a particularly nice man, I certainly respect the remarkable success he has achieved in his life, both in business, and sailing... My primary gripe with him, as with many other American yacht owners of vast wealth, is that he can't be bothered to fly the Stars & Stripes from the stern of his private cruise ship...

I do find it amusing, however, that a man of such impressive accomplishment and station in life, might still have some 'Mine's Bigger' issues to deal with... (grin)

Quote:

Reported to have originally cost of more than $290 million, rumour has it that Rising Sun’s length was extended by some 18m during construction (her project name was LE120, rather indicating an original length of 120m) to ensure she was larger than the 126.2m Octopus belonging to Microsoft’s co-founder, Paul Allen.

Top 100 largest Super Yachts and Luxury Yachts in the world - Boat International

Last edited by JonEisberg; 05-15-2013 at 12:28 PM.
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
And the Tour de France is a very small segment of what bike riders are about
And formula 1 is a small segment of what driving a car is about
And so on.

These guys are pushing the edge
Formula 1 yes, but anyone can buy basically the same bikes that are used in the TDF. The main difference between your bike (if you buy the same model) and Lance Armstrong's bike is that Armstrong has full time mechanics responsible for keeping his bike running like a Swiss watch. Well, he did at one time.
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