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  #181  
Old 05-15-2013
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

If the AC 72's continue to have accidents and people continued to die, how long would the race sailing community allow this format to continue, with no boat engineering or operations changes? Is one too many, or is it many more?
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  #182  
Old 05-15-2013
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
If the AC 72's continue to have accidents and people continued to die, how long would the race sailing community allow this format to continue, with no boat engineering or operations changes? Is one too many, or is it many more?
There will be a next iteration to the format at the next AC. That's what happens every time.
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  #183  
Old 05-15-2013
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

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Formula 1 yes, but anyone can buy basically the same bikes that are used in the TDF. The main difference between your bike (if you buy the same model) and Lance Armstrong's bike is that Armstrong has full time mechanics responsible for keeping his bike running like a Swiss watch. Well, he did at one time.
Yes agreed Steve. I in fact have a Trek bike similar to ones used. The point is however that I was making is that there is only so much safety can be helpful in a race which pushed the limits of the racer. It is an evolving thing in the F1 and AC racers, but the sports will always remain unsafe by their very nature.

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  #184  
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Since I first saw the Cat's race I did not like them in the AC format. I miss mono hull racing, the AC was my only fix on TV.
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racing and risk management:

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
If the AC 72's continue to have accidents and people continued to die, how long would the race sailing community allow this format to continue, with no boat engineering or operations changes? ...
Accidents happen in race boats. With the AC72 only two accidents happened. It is very unfortunate that in only two accidents one sailor died.

I expect more accidents I don't expect nobody else to die. If on one of the accidents someone more dies then the organization will have a safety problem and probably that will lead to some changes on the boats or in the wind conditions they are fit to race.

People have died on the VOR, on the Vendee Globe and even on minor races like those fatal accidents in California races. Living involves risks. Racing involves bigger risks. It all has to do with those risks to be acceptable or not to the racers and to the racing community. I don't think that the sailing community has nothing to do with this. Most of them don't don't give a rat's arse about sail racing.

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Last edited by PCP; 05-15-2013 at 05:24 PM.
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

With all the chase boats around on a near shore confined course, I don't think the AC had any significant risk of death at all, until the wing hit the scene. Then, rather than engineer the safest way to use it, they amp it up to 72 feet. Woohoooo. Wait, what happened?
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  #187  
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Re: racing and risk management:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Accidents happen in race boats. With the AC72 only two accidents happened. It is very unfortunate that in only two accidents one sailor died.

I expect more accidents I don't expect nobody else to die. If on one of the accidents someone more dies then the organization will have a safety problem and probably that will lead to some changes on the boats or in the wind conditions they are fit to race.

People have died on the VOR, on the Vendee Globe and even on minor races like those two fatal accidents in California races. Living involves risks. Racing involves risks bigger risks. It all has to do with those risks to be acceptable or not.

Regards

Paulo
That is what I am asking. How many would have to die in the training leading up to the AC to have the races stopped and considered too dangerous. Many hear are saying racing is dangerous- yea we all know that. And you are even saying Living involves risk-- good point, I always thought I would live forever. But if you say racing is dangerous, how many would need to die before you said, whoa, these AC 72's are too dangerous?
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Re: racing and risk management:

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
That is what I am asking. How many would have to die in the training leading up to the AC to have the races stopped and considered too dangerous. ...
I have already replied to that:"If on one of the accidents someone more dies then the organization will have a safety problem and probably that will lead to some changes on the boats or in the wind conditions they are fit to race".

Regards

Paulo
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

I'll say this.
I have 100% respect and admiration for all the crew sailing those AC72's. I cannot imagine sailing in 30 knots of wind with a 130 foot fixed sail to deal with. I scare myself at times sailing in 30 knots with a double reefed main and reefed jib on my mono.
May God be with them.

Last edited by casey1999; 05-15-2013 at 05:36 PM.
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  #190  
Old 05-15-2013
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Re: racing and risk management:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I have already replied to that:"If on one of the accidents someone more dies then the organization will have a safety problem and probably that will lead to some changes on the boats or in the wind conditions they are fit to race".

Regards

Paulo
You can repeat it all you want. It does not make it right.

You don't need to wait for someone to die to determine the level of safety. Do some searching on "Failure Mode and Effects Analysis" and "Safety Pyramid." If you understand safety culture, you will understand the absurdity of waiting for someone to die before determining whether there is a safety problem.

I am not saying that these vessels are too unsafe - I do not have the data for that - so don't go accusing me of being a bathtub sailor. But the data are out there, and if properly analyzed, appropriate changes could be made before another person is killed. In fact, I suspect there is enough data on weather and boat performance from the trials run so far to get a good estimate of how many more sailors would die if none of the current practices are not changed. Hopefully they are doing those calculations and determining acceptable weather conditions for a go-no-go decision right now.
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