Another America’s Cup entry destroyed - Page 24 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree121Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #231  
Old 05-16-2013
casey1999's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: HI
Posts: 2,845
Thanks: 4
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 4
casey1999 is on a distinguished road
Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

From:
CEO: America's Cup changes 'just rumors' - SFGate

"The boats, which can exceed 45 mph, were chosen for the 34th America's Cup by the Oracle team and its owner, Larry Ellison, after they won the Cup in 2010. The catamarans were designed in part to attract a young audience accustomed to watching extreme sports on television."



Read more: CEO: America's Cup changes 'just rumors' - SFGate
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #232  
Old 05-16-2013
chef2sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,965
Thanks: 29
Thanked 54 Times in 50 Posts
Rep Power: 7
chef2sail will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Way off topic,

Who cares who Ayrton Senna is and why should I care to know. Why would the American public watch FI...which they don't or care about it. It doesn't interest our pedestrian tastes obviously. They don't relate to the drivers for one or the cars for two.

As far as technical superiority, its apples and oranges. F1 drivers drive essentially the same courses over the same distance roughly 20 times a year with no two races in the same country. They drive cars which look nothing like what the general public drives. I cant remember the last F1 driver who even attempted to in a NASCAR car and was even able to crack the top 20. And Vice versa. Same for the Nascar drivers the other way.

The NASCAR cars require a tremendous team effort during the race as the conditions change constantly with the heat of the track and constant adjustments are made to the camber, springs air pressures etc., while in F1 you got what you got when you start basically.

Two different types of racing. As a spectator. and I have been to F1 races, they are boring as hell as the cars pass you little square of the course once every two minutes or so maybe 50-100 times.

Way different skill on the F1 course rather than in the tight proximately on the NASCAR races.

Both interest me for different reasons. Both require a different skill set and both test the limits of speeds in a confined area and are dangerous.

Getting Americans to go to F1 races is like asking Americans to give up football for soccer. We like our NASCAR. You like your F1/ We are uncivilized rednecks beer drinkers and chips and salsa and you are sophisticated wine drinkers and brie eaters. We like the intricate strategy of football at every position vs. soccer which is very straightforward and much less cerebral.

As far as NASCAR being about 30 degree banked ovals. They all are different...the don't all have banking...its not the same in every corner...and they race bumper to bumper in relatively equal cars. Many of them come from dirt tracks etc. Lots of the drivers are 35-45. F1 Boys are rich brats who while they may ridicule the NASCAR guys for riding in a circle wont dare try and go out and "hang" with them. First time one of them would get bump drafted they'd crap in their pants. F1 drivers drive with almost no contact. NASCAR..its the norm in close quarter racing

Both types of cars and drivers are to be admired. Some car advances you see in your everyday driving cars have been developed in NASCAR.

I admire both types of drivers for taking the risk at the edge of speed. Having driven an oval alone at 160 steady mph in a NASCAR was daunting and scary as hell. Amp that up to 1805-200,at temps of 200 plus and add 42 other cars, no thanks.

NASCAR to its credit does try and keep safety in mind, but its has always been a reactive one. Just like will happen with the Americas Cup. The improvements come in increments after they have crash's and sometimes even death. HANS and safer barriers were a direct reaction to Earnharts death. Air flaps..to prevent rollovers on the roof going backwards, Catch fences to prevent the cars or parts from sailing off into the crowds and killing the spectators. Fuel cells to prevent explosive fuel etc.

No sport wants to see their top attractions which draw the spectators killed. That went out with the Romans. Besides eventually there would be no one left. AC will morph...just not in the middle of this years races.




Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Paulo, trust me, I fully appreciate how much more apt is the comparison of AC racing to F1, as opposed to BASSCAR...

However, we are discussing a premier yachting event taking place in America at the moment, and the discussion largely centers around the efforts and measures taken to make the event more intriguing to the American general public... F1 is so low in our general awareness of worldwide motorsport for many of the same reasons that yacht racing is... Poll the average American to name the most notable motor racing fatality, for example, I would guess close to 90% in this country would name Dale Earnhardt... I'm not sure much more than 1 in 10 of Americans have a clue who Ayrton Senna was, on the other hand...

I think one comparison between this generation of AC boats and NASCAR still applies, however... When these AC72s are up to speed, they possess nothing remotely close to the remarkable ability of an FI car to change direction quickly... in terms of 'nimbleness', they seem to be much closer to a 3,500 pound Sprint Cup car being pressed into a 30 degree banking at 200 mph... When things start going wrong, for the most part the driver's just along for the ride...

btw, have you seen what the former F1 designer Mike Gascoyne is now up to?

f1 to gor | Sailing Anarchy

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #233  
Old 05-16-2013
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
From:
CEO: America's Cup changes 'just rumors' - SFGate

"The boats, which can exceed 45 mph, were chosen for the 34th America's Cup by the Oracle team and its owner, Larry Ellison, after they won the Cup in 2010. The catamarans were designed in part to attract a young audience accustomed to watching extreme sports on television."



Read more: CEO: America's Cup changes 'just rumors' - SFGate
and what's wrong with that? Who wants to watch boring sail? We, that love to watch sail races, love speed. The ones that don't love sail racing yet may love it if it is exciting enough (opposite of boring).

We that love sailing want young people to be attracted by it we want them sailing and for that we have to make it attractive for them. It seems that Larry Ellison is making a favor to the sailing community creating conditions to attract young people.

On another register the inquiry has started and what we know now is quite confusing:

With Artemis, the speculation is that loads on the crossbeam, which links the two hulls, in front of the mast caused the girder to fail at its intersection with the port hull, after which the whole structure immediately collapsed: The port hull snapped in half just in front of the rudder, and the rigid wing fell over. Parts of the wing were seen being picked up by chase boats in the water around the main vessel.


http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/05...mpson-artemis/

The description was given by Outteridge’s father to reporters at the Australian Newcastle Herald newspaper and appeared to suggest that the Swedish catamaran had begun to break up before it capsized.

In the article Outteridge’s father is quoted as telling Herald reporters how his son had described the crash in a phone call:

“Nathan told me [the turn] didn’t seem any different to any other occasion. The bow dug in a little bit but he said that’s not unusual. The next thing he heard a cracking noise and the boat went on its side. Before it capsized it snapped in half, Nathan described it as folding like a taco shell.”

Today however, Artemis Racing’s communications department issued an email with the following statement from Nathan Outteridge appearing to contradict how his father had been reported:

“The description of the accident in the Newcastle Herald while quoting my father is not correct and does not reflect the facts. Unfortunately it has been relayed by other media. Right now, we are all still mourning and working to understand what happened. I hope everyone can respect this and I thank all those who have expressed support.”


http://www.sailracingmagazine.com/am...h-description/


Regards

Paulo
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by PCP; 05-16-2013 at 05:06 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #234  
Old 05-16-2013
casey1999's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: HI
Posts: 2,845
Thanks: 4
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 4
casey1999 is on a distinguished road
Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
and what's wrong with that? Who wants to watch boring sail? We, that love to watch sail races, love speed. The ones that don't love sail racing yet may love it if it is exciting enough (opposite of boring).

We that love sailing want young people to be attracted by it we want them sailing and for that we have to make it attractive for them. It seems that Larry Ellison is making a favor to the sailing community creating conditions to attract young people.

Regards

Paulo
Nothing is wrong with that, I am all for it. Others though think the skippers are sailing just for themselves.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #235  
Old 05-16-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Transient
Posts: 158
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 2
c. breeze is on a distinguished road
Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Alot of the arguments you put forth seem to come from a perspective that has trouble differentiating between entertainers- and competitors.


The guys sailing the boats- the competitors- are their to compete. And if you think that's because of an audience- it says more about your lack of understanding of that personality than anything else. and that's ok, your lack of a frame of reference here is what separates pundits from players. Armchair quarterbacks from the guys on the field.


No one crewing is sitting back wondering if it'll make for good enough tv, or if it'll alienate middle America. There is an official party line, and no one wants to stry far from it- but at the end of the day- the competitor is there to compete.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #236  
Old 05-16-2013
casey1999's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: HI
Posts: 2,845
Thanks: 4
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 4
casey1999 is on a distinguished road
Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by c. breeze View Post
Alot of the arguments you put forth seem to come from a perspective that has trouble differentiating between entertainers- and competitors.


The guys sailing the boats- the competitors- are their to compete. And if you think that's because of an audience- it says more about your lack of understanding of that personality than anything else. and that's ok, your lack of a frame of reference here is what separates pundits from players. Armchair quarterbacks from the guys on the field.


No one crewing is sitting back wondering if it'll make for good enough tv, or if it'll alienate middle America. There is an official party line, and no one wants to stry far from it- but at the end of the day- the competitor is there to compete.
There are many parties involved with the AC. Clearly you do not understand this. You read somthing and comprehend it the way you see fit.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #237  
Old 05-16-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 8,967
Thanks: 10
Thanked 135 Times in 121 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Maybe I'm just tired after a long day, but I think I would just repeat myself as I disagreed with recent posts. Those posts also being the repeat of their author's previous writings. Of course, one or two did add a national or other dig, as if that would make their point persuasive. At least it was new material.

Not shocked that ultimately these debates never change anyone's mind on either side of the discussion. Mine is not changed.

Cheers.
c. breeze likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #238  
Old 05-16-2013
casey1999's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: HI
Posts: 2,845
Thanks: 4
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 4
casey1999 is on a distinguished road
Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Yea,
I'm going to bug out and going sailing for a few months.
Aloha
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #239  
Old 05-16-2013
Omatako's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Auckland New Zealand
Posts: 2,411
Thanks: 0
Thanked 28 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 12
Omatako will become famous soon enough
Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
It would be pretty straightforward to calculate a TRC and fatality rate for a common class of monohull racing, and then do the same for the AC72s so far, and compare the rates. Then you get a much better picture of how safe/unsafe the AC72s are relative to other boats.
So if we did a TRC on deaths in Formula 1 car racing in the 1950's 60's and 70' and compared it with deaths in ordinary 4 wheeled passenger vehicles over the same period and compared the rates ???

The F1 fraternity would not have been able to make their sport safer because it would have been banned.

General Motors alone over the last 50 years have produced many hundreds of millions of cars so world production must be into several billion if all car makers are counted compared to several thousand F1 cars over the years. (Statistical fact: GM produced its 100 millionth small block V8 about 8 months ago)

In a motoring TV program in the UK (Top Gear), ordinary drivers took ordinary "super cars" (McClaren F1, Lamborghini) around a popular European race track and recorded higher speeds than F1 cars. So the safety measures taken in F1 to reduce deaths has really worked

I am not going to do hours of research to prove this point but I would be willing to bet on the fact that the TRC process outlined would see an immediate end to Formula 1.

On the day that the international community puts yacht racing under the control of OSH, yacht racing world-wide will end because then it will no longer be any fun and that is the primary reason why people do it.

As always, just my opinion(s).
chef2sail likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

__________________

"Two possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying."

Arthur C. Clarke
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #240  
Old 05-16-2013
Omatako's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Auckland New Zealand
Posts: 2,411
Thanks: 0
Thanked 28 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 12
Omatako will become famous soon enough
Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
"I was offered a spot on an AC team."

"Isn't that incredibly dangerous and these new boats might really crash into each other and hurt people? I'm worried about the kids."

"Yes, but if I say no, I will never be offered another opportunity like it. I have to say yes, or hurt my career."

JMO.
My response would have been "I wasn't planning on taking the kids on the boat with me."

Just kidding.

But the choice to do or not to do a job of work irrespective of what that job may be is available to every living soul that is not an imprisoned slave. To say that the job is made dangerous and a person is forced to do it because he has no other choices is simply naive. Everybody gets to choose where they do not want to work.

So a world-class yacht crew refused to sail on a perceived death-trap and from then on is unemployable? Yeah right.

Besides, if the job is that dangerous that you want to say no, why would you want another opportunity like it?

These boys race these boats because they wouldn't want it any other way.
c. breeze likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

__________________

"Two possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying."

Arthur C. Clarke
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
North america to central/south america Sofiami Crew Wanted/Available 5 04-18-2013 08:19 AM
destroyed impeller CapnRon47 Gear & Maintenance 22 08-01-2012 10:06 PM
Sailing club is destroyed in fire NewsReader News Feeds 0 06-23-2012 03:10 PM
Rhode Island YC Destroyed by Fire SOUNDBOUNDER General Discussion (sailing related) 5 01-21-2011 03:58 PM
Hammond, Indiana, Marina effectively destroyed jdkirkk General Discussion (sailing related) 4 03-01-2006 10:43 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:14 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.