Another America’s Cup entry destroyed - Page 31 - SailNet Community

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  #301  
Old 05-23-2013
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

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Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
..

Does your local/country perform required inspections on your boats on a regular basis?

..
Yes, like in most other European nanny states

Not only boats, but cars and airplanes too.

Regards

Paulo
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  #302  
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

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Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
...
"This America's Cup safety plan is a necessary component of the permit application submitted to the Coast Guard for their consideration."
The America's cup safety plan has not to do with the boats. The rules for that ones were laid on the Protocol 3 years ago as the wind limits. The safety plan has to do with all the rest; equipment, safety boats , control of the water racing course and other safety measures.

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  #303  
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Yes, like in most other European nanny states

Not only boats, but cars and airplanes too.

Regards

Paulo
Wow, what a nanny state, my boat, and car never get inspected. Sorry, I don't own a plane.
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  #304  
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
The America's cup safety plan has not to do with the boats. The rules for that ones were laid on the Protocol 3 years ago as the wind limits. The safety plan has to do with all the rest; equipment, safety boats , control of the water racing course and other safety measures.

Regards

Paulo
The permit issued by the CG to run the race is based on the safety of the boats also, not just safety equipment. Again, the CG will be ultimately responsible for rescue, they are the governing body to issue the use permit.
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

I don't see the CG preventing boats from racing in over 25kts of wind. The CG issues permits for events that take place both on SF Bay and outside of SF Gate in heavier wind/sea conditions. Usually what happens if the weather is extremely rough is that the Race Committee holds a meeting before the race and everyone is warned about the wind/seas and given the opportunity to scratch from the race; or postpone the race altogether. This gives skippers a chance to assess the seaworthiness of the boat, their sailing skills, and that of their crew. The crew also has the opportunity to decline to sail in the conditions; knowing what they will be going out in.

The CG issues the permit weeks before the race day so they have no jurisdiction on the event's weather conditions. There have been times when USCG did not issue an event permit (following the Low Speed Chase accident); to determine what the cause was and give the racing fleet time to re-assess their internal safety protocols. This did not happen during the Lightship race when Daisy and her crew was lost in heavy conditions a few years back; instead USCG did an escort for the following offshore race to the Farallones. These are offshore events that have had more scrutiny because of the extreme conditions that occur on SF Bar when the wind and swell are up during the winter months. It's not uncommon for the swell to be 12-15' on short period with breakers out on the bar. The races are still permitted and it's not a common occurrence for the racing boats that do go out to be lost.
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

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Originally Posted by KeelHaulin View Post
I don't see the CG preventing boats from racing in over 25kts of wind. The CG issues permits for events that take place both on SF Bay and outside of SF Gate in heavier wind/sea conditions. Usually what happens if the weather is extremely rough is that the Race Committee holds a meeting before the race and everyone is warned about the wind/seas and given the opportunity to scratch from the race; or postpone the race altogether. This gives skippers a chance to assess the seaworthiness of the boat, their sailing skills, and that of their crew. The crew also has the opportunity to decline to sail in the conditions; knowing what they will be going out in.

The CG issues the permit weeks before the race day so they have no jurisdiction on the event's weather conditions. There have been times when USCG did not issue an event permit (following the Low Speed Chase accident); to determine what the cause was and give the racing fleet time to re-assess their internal safety protocols. This did not happen during the Lightship race when Daisy and her crew was lost in heavy conditions a few years back; instead USCG did an escort for the following offshore race to the Farallones. These are offshore events that have had more scrutiny because of the extreme conditions that occur on SF Bar when the wind and swell are up during the winter months. It's not uncommon for the swell to be 12-15' on short period with breakers out on the bar. The races are still permitted and it's not a common occurrence for the racing boats that do go out to be lost.
But if the CG wants to stop a race, because of conditions or the boat itself, they could declare the voyage manefestly unsafe. Note I said "could". They do have the jurisdiction to do this.
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

The do but to my knowledge it has never happened for an inshore race; and the boats racing these events are not as thoroughly prepared, or self scrutinized for safety as much as the AC boats are. If casual crews can race in these conditions that are commonplace where would there be any reason/precedent for the USCG to decline to issue a permit for an AC event? That's not to mention that the accident that occurred was on a non-racing team practice day. In light of that, are we to expect the USCG to start cancelling sailing on SF Bay entirely when the wind hits 22kts? Will I get a ticket if my boat is heeled more than 30 degrees?
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

I find it strange that the AC is now suggesting major changes to the parameters of these events 1 month before the LVC. These boats were specifically designed to sail in the conditions that are described for this AC event. If one or more of the boats is designed for heavier conditions than the revised rules; then it's overbuilt now, which deem it obsolete. So say Artemis and Luna Rossa built their boats more lightly to begin with; it would benefit those teams immensely if the conditions of the race were changed to lower the windspeeds. You know Oracle made structural and design changes after their accident; and ETZ is saying they are good to go in 30kts; so why should they put their boats at any disadvantage?
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

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Originally Posted by KeelHaulin View Post
The do but to my knowledge it has never happened for an inshore race; and the boats racing these events are not as thoroughly prepared, or self scrutinized for safety as much as the AC boats are. If casual crews can race in these conditions that are commonplace where would there be any reason/precedent for the USCG to decline to issue a permit for an AC event? That's not to mention that the accident that occurred was on a non-racing team practice day. In light of that, are we to expect the USCG to start cancelling sailing on SF Bay entirely when the wind hits 22kts? Will I get a ticket if my boat is heeled more than 30 degrees?
The AC 72 sailing in the conditions of SF bay is relatively new and totally different from your typical mono hull racing boat. I could see the CG stopping the race if the AC organization does not adapt the proposed changes. It looks like the AC org however will make the necessary changes to satisfy the CG so all is well, at least until all of this goes to the courts.
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

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... It looks like the AC org however will make the necessary changes to satisfy the CG so all is well, at least until all of this goes to the courts.
Are you saying that it is the CG that will say how the boat is built and designed? That makes no sense the CG dos not that function does not have any experience with this types of boats and is not in conditions to know what is safe or not.

Regards

Paulo
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