Another America’s Cup entry destroyed - Page 34 - SailNet Community

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  #331  
Old 05-23-2013
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
Yea, the CG got nothin to do with it......


Safety ideas become rules for Americas Cup | SBS World News


The US Coast Guard has insisted all America's Cup safety ideas discussed following a training death become rules for the sailing contest.
Well, anything's possible, of course... But I simply have a hard time imagining - barring any further tragedy, of course - the CG denying the permit for the AC as things currently stand...

At the 2011 Superboat World Championships in Key West, 2 drivers were killed on the first day of competition, a Wednesday...






On Friday, a 3rd driver was killed in another crash, the 9th racer to be killed at Key West over the previous 27 years... Nevertheless, the event continued without interruption or modification though the finals on Sunday...

In 2012, the race was back, with the Superboat Unlimited class running faster than ever before...

So, if history is any guide, the USCG doesn't appear to have much of a track record of denying permits to these sorts of events...

Pretty spooky to my untrained eye how close to the exit of that turn some of that spectator fleet is allowed to be, but we have to presume the Coasties know best, I suppose... (grin)



Last edited by JonEisberg; 05-23-2013 at 07:58 PM.
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  #332  
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

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Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
But if the CG wants to stop a race, because of conditions or the boat itself, they could declare the voyage manefestly unsafe. Note I said "could". They do have the jurisdiction to do this.
If they really wanted to control all aspects of sports and safety on the water the CG would have banned kite boarding years ago. I am sure some regional CG officer is making the rounds and discussing safety but does not want to be held responsible for canceling the AC.
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  #333  
Old 05-23-2013
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Lets be honest. The CG knows very little about sailing in the first place, much less sailing these beasts. All they are doing is agreeing with the recommendations presented.
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  #334  
Old 05-23-2013
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

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Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
Not sure what model you are looking at but those of us who race on the Bay know that the City side is where you go for wind relief. The shear line runs from Blackaller to Alcatraz and on to just outside Blossom Rock. If you think it’s windy by the City, you ought to try a mark rounding at Harding Rock on the same day!
SF Ports website that is now at SJSU. It WAS a great resource for wind data both current and archived but now it only has the most current wind data; the archive page has not been working correctly since they moved it from the government website.

While I agree that the Blossom Rock area is lighter, the wind does funnel through at Alcatraz. I'd say the shear runs from Fort Point down to Aquatic Park/Pier 39, but out near Alcatraz is right in the middle of The Slot so I don't understand why you'd say it's much lighter to the south of Alcatraz.

I'm not saying I disagree with you about there being even more wind out near Harding Rock; but to say the east side of Alcatraz is inside of the wind shear line, to me is incorrect (to my experience). The last two times we watched Oracle go by us at 35+kts (within 200 yards) flying both hulls was right between Alcatraz and the Cityfront. Wind was in the low 20s.



I'd show you where I'm referring to if there was access to archives but as of right now there is not; and on the many days I've sailed in heavy wind and later checked the archived data I'd say it was accurate. Often times the heaviest wind vectors are shown just to the SE of Alcatraz with a huge easterly shift compared to the predominant wind direction. Latitude 38 has a saying "counterclockwise for comfort" for times when sailors take guests because tacking through the heavy wind on the south side of the bay is more challenging than tacking up through Raccoon Strait. I don't disagree with that statement.

Last edited by KeelHaulin; 05-23-2013 at 09:01 PM.
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

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Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
Wow, what a nanny state, my boat, and car never get inspected. Sorry, I don't own a plane.
The FAA do not inspect airplanes as much as they have a mechanic that inspects it at least once a year and has to sign for its airworthiness. The pilot vouches it is airworthy each time he flies it.

In commercial operations there are inspections but it is mostly a paperwork thing. There is also random ramp inspections. Basically though the individual pilot or organization are on their own when it comes to airworthiness in the US.
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  #336  
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

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Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Well, anything's possible, of course... But I simply have a hard time imagining - barring any further tragedy, of course - the CG denying the permit for the AC as things currently stand...

At the 2011 Superboat World Championships in Key West, 2 drivers were killed on the first day of competition, a Wednesday...






On Friday, a 3rd driver was killed in another crash, the 9th racer to be killed at Key West over the previous 27 years... Nevertheless, the event continued without interruption or modification though the finals on Sunday...

In 2012, the race was back, with the Superboat Unlimited class running faster than ever before...

So, if history is any guide, the USCG doesn't appear to have much of a track record of denying permits to these sorts of events...

Pretty spooky to my untrained eye how close to the exit of that turn some of that spectator fleet is allowed to be, but we have to presume the Coasties know best, I suppose... (grin)


The AC has become more high profile than the examples you post, therefore they have become more involved with the AC rules, but your pics are great.
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Ah, the SJSU wind model. That model is normalized to a 200 foot altitude. My boat is only 50' tall so my anemometer never records the modeled wind speeds. Yes, there is a wind shadow directly behind Alcatraz but it is well gone before you get to "Red 2". Interestingly, the wind begins to separate from the water at the windward side of the island and it is actually windier mid channel than right at the island. MrsB, not noted for her heavy air sailing, will start making comments around Blossom Rock if we’re experiencing a building breeze and that’s my cue to go up the City Front and not up the slot proper.

Richard Spindler will tell you that the slot is demarked by a line going from the South Tower and past the north east side of Alcatraz. The other side is the line from the North Tower and past Pt. Blunt. All outside of the race course area. The counter clockwise notion is for sailors to work their way up past Sausalito and cross the slot at Yellow Bluff and then make for Chrissy Field. This is the shortest distance to cross at the slot and wind abates at Chrissy because it’s protected by Fort Point. The run down the City Front is all in that same lighter air.

I've must have raced GGYC’s City Front Course at least fifty times as well as seeing 45s do their Grand Prix thing and I’m having a hard time remembering a time when the breeze was much over 20kts. Maybe it’s just me. If that’s the case, the organizing committee ought to put me on one of the boats to ensure that breeze never gets too strong.


Yes, I've enjoyed a certain amount of sucess racing GGYC's City Front courses
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Last edited by GeorgeB; 05-23-2013 at 09:51 PM.
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  #338  
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

George if you were not aware; the AC72 course is expanded, it will run to the east end of Alcatraz/Pier 39. I realize that the "citifront race course" is more protected (west of St Francis), I have sailed the area but that's not the area of concern for the AC72 race course. I know by the many times I have sailed up along the city that as soon as you get to Pier 39 and turn to the left towards the bridge by comparison of relative windspeed you're in the slot. The boat takes a strong heel and the windspeeds come up to 20+ right outside the Pier 39 marina entrance. I've seen boats go south of Pier 39 to raise sail; and we usually go south of Pier 39 to Gybe or catch the wind shadow benind Alcatraz. When Oracle is practicing they usually turn around just south of Pier 39 and then go back upwind through this area and then to the NW; areas where the wind is clear and strong. I don't think they are practicing in this zone without knowledge of where the racing course is going to be.
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

I think it's accepted that people will die in high speed events because the level of risk involved is plainly visible. When a sailing accident like Artemis happens it "should not have caused death" because it is not perceived as something that is life threatening. When a race car driver dies everyone shrugs shoulders and says 'it happens'. When it happens in a sailing event it just is not viewed as taking risks that could result in a death despite the fact that they are pushing the limits of their craft and are surrounded by water.
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Old 05-23-2013
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Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

I think that dude wrecked his boat because that sailboat (right side of picture) pulled in front of him :

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