Another America’s Cup entry destroyed - Page 6 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree121Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #51  
Old 05-11-2013
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,160
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by jephotog View Post
Maybe this is Larry Ellison's plan to just outspend his competitors until they can't afford to compete. ..
I guess you are right there and it was the reason Alinghy went out of the game.
The others were not so bright and took more time to see that they did not have a chance. It seems to me that is evident for all know.

Regards

Paulo
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by PCP; 05-11-2013 at 10:56 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #52  
Old 05-11-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Oceanside CA
Posts: 688
Thanks: 3
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Rep Power: 13
jephotog is on a distinguished road
Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
It's not inconceivable, but typically narcissistic to have no one to compete with. The irony is that you can't really say you're the best, if you can't prove it against a similar field. That will get to him.

Who's Regan?
Whoops can't spell, I meant Ronald Reagan.
__________________
Jordan
West Wight Potter 14 "Lemon Drop"
Oceanside CA
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #53  
Old 05-11-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 8,687
Thanks: 10
Thanked 113 Times in 107 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by jephotog View Post
Whoops can't spell, I meant Ronald Reagan.
Then the politics backfired on you, didn't it. Maybe you should leave it out of a sailing forum.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #54  
Old 05-11-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Oceanside CA
Posts: 688
Thanks: 3
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Rep Power: 13
jephotog is on a distinguished road
Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Then the politics backfired on you, didn't it. Maybe you should leave it out of a sailing forum.
I was referring to US vs Russia in the cold war, I did not think the theory we outspent the USSR would have been so controversial.

"Mr. Ellison tear down this wall."
Minnesail likes this.
__________________
Jordan
West Wight Potter 14 "Lemon Drop"
Oceanside CA
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #55  
Old 05-11-2013
bobmcgov's Avatar
baDumbumbum
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Windy Wyoming
Posts: 1,022
Thanks: 0
Thanked 24 Times in 23 Posts
Rep Power: 8
bobmcgov will become famous soon enough
Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
That's the reason AC staid in America for so long. I mean you could not make a boat strong enough to sail safely the Atlantic and able to compete with a much lighter and fragile boat designed only for racing inshore the AC in the US.

Regards

Paulo
That's true -- and of course, as soon as the NYYC got their trophy home, they began poisoning the well so no one else could compete. First with the 'on your own bottom' rule, then changing the Deed to limit what constituted a 'legitimate Challenger', then designing Defenders so complex & expensive, few could afford to meet them on those terms. Sound familiar?

The J class yachts, which were somewhere between a One Design and a Box Rule, were a fine example of the type: originally a toy of the go-go Teens and Twenties, they continued to be the platform of choice even thru the darkest Depression -- which many industrialists coasted thru quite unscathed. Sticking to such monstrously expensive boats winnowed the field of potential challengers, especially from Europe where the Great Depression was so very much worse.

Amusing historical footnote: America was a purpose-built racer that needed substantial temporary bracing to cross the Atlantic in one piece; that bracing was removed for the famous regatta.

A good parallel might be professional baseball. Teams align themselves with cites or states and cultivate fan bases to underpin the brand. But really, the teams do not belong to the fans, or to the cities. They are the toys of extremely wealthy individuals or families: Wrigley, Bush, Busch, Selig, Anschutz.... And they don't just hire players from the local area. They shop for the best talent, anywhere in the world. European football, same way: Chelsea FC is the plaything of Roman Abramovitch, who owns roughly 800 linear feet of megayachts and his own Boeing 757. He fires managers three times a year and god help Larry if he ever turns his attention to sailboat racing.

So I guess the question is, when these egos -- this self-indulgence -- start killing people, when professional sailors desperate for a gig become grist for a billionaire's mill, do we call the owners out?

I dunno. Mr. Simpson was an Olympic Star medalist. He had no illusions about the sketchiness of Artemis, the potential for havoc. He had other choices in life, and he bought into the AC program. True, the owners keep pushing the limits of sailing tech waaaay ahead of what materials engineering or crew can really manage: "Let's build a 72-foot wingsail beach cat! Oh hell, let's built a 72-foot wingsail Moth!" And the choice of SFBay will come back to haunt them all. But while Simpson's death is an acute tragedy for those close to him, I'm strangely more bothered by the thousand garment workers pinned under a building in Bangladesh. Who had fewer choices. That's another example of people pushing limits ... including every one of us who want to find out just how cheaply a T-shirt can be made.
__________________
Buccaneer18, Grainnia
SJ21, Diarmuid
Albin Ballad 30, Fionn
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #56  
Old 05-11-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 8,687
Thanks: 10
Thanked 113 Times in 107 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by jephotog View Post
I was referring to US vs Russia in the cold war, I did not think the theory we outspent the USSR would have been so controversial.

"Mr. Ellison tear down this wall."
Politics is politics. Best not to bring it up at the dinner table. We've all done it and learned the hard way. Let's go back to our regular programming.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #57  
Old 05-11-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 8,687
Thanks: 10
Thanked 113 Times in 107 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

The American football analogy is a good one. There have been many improvements to safety as the years go by, or the owners would eventually assume too much liability. Even the concussion issues lately will be addressed.

AC sailing is clearly going the other direction. The risk associated with the 72 cats is obviously much greater than the 12m.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #58  
Old 05-11-2013
smackdaddy's Avatar
Last Man Standing
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 12,950
Thanks: 80
Thanked 72 Times in 66 Posts
Rep Power: 8
smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough
Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Yes, I agree with Palmetto that the AC should be the top in sailing research in what regards racing boats and I don't like the level of conservatism on this forum where most people don't follow or like sail races but when they express an opinion about the biggest sail racing event they suggest it should be raced in good old designed boats.

The AC has to be a success not only in what regards sailing development but also in what regards commercial success and sustainability. They should not look to the stock cars races as a model, but to F1.
As for the conservatism on SN, I think it's definitely there...but what I like about this forum is that it's SAILnet...not just CRUISERSforum. Though those of us who love racing are in a minority - we're still brilliant...and right...and here.

As for the Nascar/F1 analogy - you're absolutely right. I honestly think the ACWS was the absolutely best thing to come out of all this. That is a sustainable event that is really exciting to watch. I think it will continue as its own event.

But what makes it so fun to watch is THE BOAT. Yes it's great to see Coutts or Peyron or Spithill or Barker, etc. work their crews and strategies - but it's the boats and their speed that create the dazzle. The acceleration of those things is amazing. And screaming along at 25+ knots (and, yes, the crashes) is what FINALLY makes sailing fun to watch for most people.

So those arguing for "the good old days" in slow-ass monos...well the past is the past for good reason.

Think about what these 72s are doing! They are reaching speeds in excess of 40-FREAKIN'-KNOTS!!! AND THEY ARE FOILING!!!

This is a sailboat going as fast or faster than many motor powered vessels!!!!

They are doing the right thing with the technology. I have no doubt. It's just that, like the Wired article (and Coutts) said, they've jumped a little too far too fast and need to get it under control. But they don't need to abandon it.

Push on lads!
chef2sail and capta like this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40

Last edited by smackdaddy; 05-11-2013 at 11:17 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #59  
Old 05-11-2013
capta's Avatar
Master Mariner
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: somewhere in the Windward or Leeward Islands
Posts: 1,231
Thanks: 11
Thanked 54 Times in 49 Posts
Rep Power: 4
capta is on a distinguished road
Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
Get rid of those flying hull big cats. They just killed someone. Stick to the monos.
OMG, I'm going to stop taking baths because I just heard that one can die in 2 inches of water!
At least Bart died doing something he had a passion for, and was quite good at, by all accounts.
Beats rotting away with cancer or some such, which happens to those his age, too.
chef2sail likes this.
__________________
"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #60  
Old 05-11-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 8,687
Thanks: 10
Thanked 113 Times in 107 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Re: Another America’s Cup entry destroyed

Smack, have you seen what the inside of a NASCAR drivers seat looks like these days? The safety of the driver is paramount and the cars have very strict rules intended to improve safety each year. The NFL has made great strides in seeing that the quarterbacks are not broken into bits anymore.

I'm good with the thrill, just not with the abandonment of safety. All of these sports spilled some blood before they got it. I just see AC going the other way from these risky sports analogies, as the spectacular crashes of the cats has been going on for a while and it was just a matter of time before one killed someone. Everyone knew it.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
North america to central/south america Sofiami Crew Wanted/Available 5 04-18-2013 08:19 AM
destroyed impeller CapnRon47 Gear & Maintenance 22 08-01-2012 10:06 PM
Sailing club is destroyed in fire NewsReader News Feeds 0 06-23-2012 03:10 PM
Rhode Island YC Destroyed by Fire SOUNDBOUNDER General Discussion (sailing related) 5 01-21-2011 03:58 PM
Hammond, Indiana, Marina effectively destroyed jdkirkk General Discussion (sailing related) 4 03-01-2006 10:43 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:57 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012