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  #41  
Old 05-15-2013
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Re: Do dock lines go with the boat?

I think that even if it is in the contract, once the paperwork is signed it is yours if still on board. At least that is how it works on a house. I know our new house had a washer and dryer that was listed as not part of the sale, but once we signed papers we went to the house and they were still there. The old owner now lives a thousand miles away in a retirement center(did not come to the closing), so I did not think she really wanted it, just did not want to be held responsible for it. Not a huge deal, but nice since the washer is a brand new top of the line front loader. Now I wish the snow blower and tractor were still there! But I can's say anything because they were off the property before closing.

But if they took anything off the boat after closing they are likely guilty of "theft."
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Re: Do dock lines go with the boat?

I would say the lines come with the boat but do you really want to quibble over docklines with what may seem an unreasonable person?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
Your situation illustrates the need to define exactly what you are buying, and how a list of excluded items isn't clear enough. On the contract I used for my own purchase in Va./Md., you can see "mooring lines" are included in subparagraph 1(f):

d. Below decks/cabin furnishings, equipment, cushions for all berths, cooler, _________ toilet with _____________, foul weather jackets/gear, books, charts, and __________________;
?
Most of that contract seems reasonable but really you want my foul weather gear? How about my dirty socks and sailing shoes? Maybe because I don't have a big boat, but anything that fits in my sail bag is mine and not the boat's. I would also argue the boat does not read I do and the books are mine. I am not taking the Yanmar manual but Annapolis Book of Seamanship is mine.
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  #43  
Old 05-15-2013
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Re: Do dock lines go with the boat?

My contract protects the buyer. It goes beyond your example by defining the "Sailboat" as including "... along with all property attached to and enclosed in the vessel." If moveable personal property does not convey, take it off the boat before you show and sell it.

After all, you do want the buyer to have a reasonable expectation of what he is actually buying.

Just as with the home seller going to the retirement community, some boat sellers are retiring from sailing and/or boating, so they might very well leave the foul weather gear, the charts, the handheld radio, etc.

Really, the more significant items are the more expensive, smaller, moveable items: handheld GPS, EPIRB, PLB, handheld VHF radio, laptop computer for navigation, etc. The easy answer is to be very specific in the contract. The practical answer is to remove from boat before showing and selling. The even more practical answer is to avoid doing business with a bunghole.
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Last edited by jameswilson29; 05-15-2013 at 06:59 AM.
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  #44  
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Re: Do dock lines go with the boat?

Very cheap but not worth the hassle. I'd buy new lines. When I leave the slip I'd just cut the boat free of the dock lines......
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Re: Do dock lines go with the boat?

before you go to boat to possess it, take ropes for lines--dont have to have those cutesie lil loops already spliced into em--just needs line of appropriate length fro docklines--and MOVE that boat to another location.
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Re: Do dock lines go with the boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
....If moveable personal property does not convey, take it off the boat before you show and sell it..........
While good advice, this isn't really practical, if you are still using your boat actively. The stuff that we have packed away aboard is unbelievable. We take 8 plastic tubs of stuff off, just for winter de-commissioning. I bet there is 2 to 3 times more spare stuff that doesn't need to come off.

When the time came to sell, I would clearly leave the spare macerator pump. How many of the 18 life jackets and 4 inflatable pfds would I leave? Not all, such as our spinlocks. I may or may not include the liferaft in the sale, although, that one should be clearly noted. Either way, I can't haul it on and off.

To prevent this issue, I think the contract should read that nothing but the following is included. Then leave more. Makes for a nicer transaction and no one pays more or less for a boat that has dock lines or spare stuff included, unless its a very inexpensive boat where these are a significant percentage of value. Perhaps the contract should give the seller the right to leave more, so there isn't a quibble over cleaning up.

Quote:
The even more practical answer is to avoid doing business with a bunghole.
This is the best advice in the thread!! People get emotionally attached to buying a boat and will gut through major warning signs of trouble ahead. If things look sour, whether the seller or something in the survey, walk away!!! Never fall in love with the boat, until after you own it.
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Re: Do dock lines go with the boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
before you go to boat to possess it, take ropes for lines--dont have to have those cutesie lil loops already spliced into em--just needs line of appropriate length fro docklines--and MOVE that boat to another location.
That's a good plan, but if you're expecting the dock lines to convey with the boat, why bring them? I can see bringing one or two as a back-up.
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Re: Do dock lines go with the boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
While good advice, this isn't really practical, if you are still using your boat actively.
That's a fair point. But put the "stuff" that doesn't convey into one or more of your bins and make it clear that that stuff doesn't convey.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
To prevent this issue, I think the contract should read that nothing but the following is included.
If you are the seller and are presenting the contract to the buyer, this is a fine place to start. But whey you go to buy your next boat, is that really the position you want your seller to take?

In the end, a good contract will list all of the "stuff" that will or won't convey. The goal is to ensure that both parties' intent is properly memorialized, and that both parties have reasonably expectations when the money changes hands. In this case, assuming the OP is telling the truth about the language in the contract, it seems to me that the "catch-all" provision (which is a smart thing to have in there) would benefit him.

I'd be very curious what other items were removed by the seller that weren't on the list. The seller of our first boat told me that everything that I saw went with the boat. When I arrived, the inlatable towable ring that was in the cabin (and that I had been creating lots of fun scenarios with in my mind) was gone, as were a few other things. Even when they said it, I wasn't so sure they really meant to include the inflatable in the "everything" description, so I just left it alone. They took a few other things off the boat, too, but nothing that was of any real consequence to me, especially at the price I paid. If the seller in the OP's case took off good/valuable things but they aren't things he wanted (e.g., plates and silverware, glasses/cups, decorations, etc.) then I'd probably just let it go. But if any fixtures (lights, fans, equipment, sail covers, extra sails, etc.) or safety equipment (e.g., flares, minimum number of life vests, etc.) were taken, at a minimum I'd be a bit peeved. If it was something REALLY valuable, I'd be tempted to call the police because there was fraud, and possibly theft, involved. But, actually, as James said, if I really felt like something fishy was happening, I would have canceled the transaction, stopped payment on the check, and walked away.
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  #49  
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Re: Do dock lines go with the boat?

There are some people that just have to "steal" things after a sale. When I went to settlement the couple that lived in my house came back and were running around in the dark with flashlights so no one would see them! I walked in and said. "why didn't you just tell me you needed to come back in?" I just got a deer in the headlights type stare and something mumbled for a reason that I don't remember. LOL
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Re: Do dock lines go with the boat?

EXPECTATIONS lead to disappointments
ASSUME...we all know that one...
better safe than sorry
takes less time to bring your own basic lines than to have to go out and buy more while maintaining security of your boat ...... besides--one is not able to have too many lines/ropes/etc on boat......
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