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  #31  
Old 05-16-2013
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Re: Where are the younger people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
Big fear, big debt and an attachment to luxury- three strikes against going cruising if you were born after Kurt Cobain chewed on a shotgun.
Beautiful analysis bljones. Although I would put "big debt", and all the related financial realities as #1 by a long shot. The simple fact is that the middle class has been decimated over the last 30 years. We now spend hugely more on the basics of life than we did a generation or two ago. Saving are in negative territory, and people have fewer and fewer options simply to survive in our western societies. This is not due to a growing avarice, laziness or selfishness of "those kids today," but due the reality that two incomes can't even compete with the buying power of one a generation or two ago.

If you don't feel secure about keeping a roof over your head, being able to put food on the table, and saving a little for old age, then you're sure as heck not going to be buying boats, getting into hang gliding or treking off on some long mountain trail.

Cruising in a small boat has always been the domain of the relatively rich. How many from the so-called "third world," or even the "developing world," has there ever been in the fleets of long-term sailors and cruisers? Almost none. Why? B/c they don't have the security that our societies used to provide to the vast majority of us. Thanks to the victory of neo-liberal thinking -- a victory brought about by the baby-boom generation -- those days are quickly receding into history.

There will always be those who can buck the trends of their day, and strike out on their own. But it is hard to dream the big dream when you're running as hard as you can, just to keep you and your family safe and secure.
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  #32  
Old 05-16-2013
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Re: Where are the younger people?

northoceanbeach: Come to Seattle for a few days, with your boat. Do it whenever, you shouldn't turn around for it.

You'll find plenty of sailors your age (early 30s?) and younger. They are racing dinghies at Shilshole, having fun at Duck Dodge (a beer can/buoy race on Tuesday nights all summer), living aboard in smaller boats, and generally sailing quite a lot. On S dock (boats up to 30') at Shilshole I'd guess that the age demographics roughly match those in the rest of the city, I see people of all ages who keep their boats along mine. My dock neighbor is probably in his late 20s and is often sailing to local destinations every weekend.

I agree with that the costs keep a lot of people from owning boats (both younger and older). Moorage in Seattle for a <30' boat is still $250-$400/mo. The boats aren't expensive, but maintaining them and paying for moorage adds up quickly and you better use the boat to make it worthwhile. These issues are what kept me from getting into sailing until my late 30s (I'm 39), despite being interested in it from my first experience sailing in my teens. I sometimes wish I had pushed into it earlier, but financially I think I did the right thing by waiting. My wife and I don't have kids, which gives us a lot more financial freedom and time.

I'm also a bicycle tourist (a much less expensive way to travel) and even in that pursuit I found that many of the tourists that I met on the road were a lot older than myself. I'm very rare for my age in that I've worked for the same company since college and get a lot of vacation (5 weeks per year now, I started getting 4 weeks per year when I was 28). A lot of my friends can't afford to use even a week of their vacation every year for cruising or touring when they only get 2 or 3 weeks per year.

I really dislike all of the reverse age-ist remarks in this thread implying that people of my generation and younger are lazy. These sorts of remarks have always been made when older generations don't understand younger ones, and they are out of line. For every lazy 20-something today you could have found a similar lazy one in the 40s, 50s, or 60s. For every remarkable young person back then I think you'll find a remarkable one today. The economy is quite different and has shaped things differently, but there are still a lot of great people out there.
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Last edited by Alex W; 05-16-2013 at 11:16 AM.
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  #33  
Old 05-16-2013
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Re: Where are the younger people?

Our son bought his first boat for himself at 24 or 25, and is on his second. While they may be an exception these days, it does still happen. They were 'bargain boats' and far from pristine but he and his family (5 yr old daughter) are out there sailing (on their own boat and OPBs) They both work, live in an area where housing is prohibitively expensive and have made the priority call to rent rather than saddle themselves with a big mortgage, and manage to keep a boat in a high priced moorage market. Their circle of friends includes a half dozen youngish 30-somethings racing/cruising families with their own boats as well.

But as mentioned before these groups are not out cruising during school season...

OTOH the marked shrinkage of racing fleets since the 70s also points to a declining overall interest across the continent. I wonder if European trends are similar???
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  #34  
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Re: Where are the younger people?

I read many years ago (10-20) That the future of economic success was to market to the "luxury crowd" Since not everyone can be there the market is not large. However to attract the "successful" one must exclude the less than successful. Hence rules to discriminate against. Eg. If you do not have money, go away. Increase your prices so that unless you have plenty of disposable income you cannot play. If you are not a clone of me, go away. Marinas are becoming a rip off. As was said earlier...they are more like an old folks in an RV park than sailors. They are definitely NOT interested in entertaining any ideas about bringing young blood into the fold. Pretty damn sad. Alas, as things are regressing, the luxury pool will grow smaller and smaller.....Expect it to get worse with more regulation, fees and of course once (sooner than most will admit) this population departs the earth, the business will close to find more profitable ways of making money. It has been this way since the age of man. Very little altruism and idealism in reality. Just some shiny stainless steel, polo shirts, with Sperry's and a Tom Collins in hand.
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  #35  
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Re: Where are the younger people?

what do you guys say the cost for a big enough boat to coastal cruise and upkeep is per month is?
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  #36  
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Re: Where are the younger people?

I was talking about long term storage plans for my boat with a neighbor- and right now we have the same priorities- cool crowd at the dock, convenience to the ocean, price, and protection- and have essentially decided we will move to the same marina as an insurance policy- knowing there will be someone else to hang out and sail with- or it'll already meet all the criteria- and be the place to be.

It's nice living somewhere that is reasonable enough to get buy on a service industry or retail paycheck- and have plenty to play with...

That said- the dude I just bought my new boat from sold it because he didn't really ever use it- and having it and feeling like he "needed to use it" meant he wasn't using his hobie 16 like he could be...

Also- all that about bicycling and backpacking and the like is true. Lots of younger people are touring on land- which from a value standpoint makes a lot of sense from a "sights seen/new experiences per dollar spent" perspective. Viewed in the light of having 1-2 months to travel a year- sailing a dinghy, or a beach cat year round / season long- that can be stored for "free" is always ready to go, and is easily disposed of and replaced makes so much sense that I'm almost talking myself into it.
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Re: Where are the younger people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Ritz View Post
what do you guys say the cost for a big enough boat to coastal cruise and upkeep is per month is?
Entry fee for turn key about 5000
Followed by about 500 a month, maybe a bit less- 450.


That's moorage, and budget for maintenance and upkeep- and planning on a mainly DIY approach

The variable is moorage in your area. I'm at 300 for a 27'
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Re: Where are the younger people?

I'm 29 and my wife is 28, the biggest problem we have is getting enough time to go.

I get a lot of vacation compared to most other folks I know, but even still, it's hard to take time off to go cruising beyond a certain distance. We even live in FL and are a short haul to the Bahamas, but if you consider the time it takes to get there plus having some time on either end to sit out wx, you are talking a week just in travel time. Do I really want to sail there just to stay for a day, then turn around and come home? That is a week of vacation right there. What happened to not having a schedule?

You also have to consider that vacation is necessary throughout the year to not go crazy and visit family (they are mutually exclusive and require vacation for both).

The unfortunate reality is that sailing is SLOW and getting to where you want to go while working a normal job is challenging. We can make it work, between my wife being a teacher and my having a really flexible schedule/environment and a lot of vacation, we'll be able to take 3 or 4 weeks and make a trip, but it's a short haul for us to goto interesting spots, folks further north won't have the same luxury, depending on where they want to go. We're fortunate in all those regards, but I know few people in that situation.

It just doesn't work when you have a tight schedule, which most younger folks have. So short of quitting your job, without the ability to telecommute, how do you make it happen with a normal job?
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Last edited by Shinook; 05-16-2013 at 10:40 AM.
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  #39  
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Re: Where are the younger people?

I'll agree that there are fewer younger people sailing. I'm...lemme think...59, and I got my first sailboat, a 16 foot daysailer, when I was 21. Bought it used, and towed it behind my Ford Pinto to every nearby body of water, and had a blast.

NOT expensive. Young people are able to buy snowmobiles, sportbikes, speedboats, and jetskis, but I almost never see a daysailor or a catamaran being towed down the road. Used to be a common site.

If you can afford a Jetski you can afford a sailboat. Laser, Sunfish, etc..

IMHO, it's more the result of a cultural shift than a reflection of economic hard times. I'll go along with those posters who cited "self direction". My stepkid's whole young lives were occupied with planned, supervised, activities. Soccer, band, band camp, baseball, and on and on. Left on their own, they were lost.

Contrasted with my childhood in the sixties in a rural area. The neighborhood kid attitude was, "hey, let's go.........get some guys together for some ball. hike the woods, go down to the river, etc..

Our family used to go trailer camping. The second we stopped at a new area, we kids said, "let's go explore...what's over here?". It's been documented that today's kids don't do that.

So, yeah, cultural shift. And I don't want to mark myself as an old codger, but it's not a shift I like.
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Re: Where are the younger people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by c. breeze View Post
Entry fee for turn key about 5000
Followed by about 500 a month, maybe a bit less- 450.


That's moorage, and budget for maintenance and upkeep- and planning on a mainly DIY approach

The variable is moorage in your area. I'm at 300 for a 27'
5k is closer to what I was expecting then what some other people say
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