My Horror Story - Page 13 - SailNet Community
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post #121 of 191 Old 05-21-2013
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Re: My Horror Story

I know the area a little and the boat. One of my racing crew had a PY 26 and a GM10. The Yanmar 1 lung is a pretty simple engine and sufficient for the boat. You should be able to motor the boat, if it is operating efficiently, at 5.5 knots all day long. Your engine cruising RPM should be 25-2700 rpm.

Over filled oil reservoir is a distinct possibility. Did you use the proper oil or fluid for the Kanzaki transmission. Is the boat propped correctly? Electric fuel pump on this engine? If the tranny was older,the transmission might slip if the gears have a glazed surface. Probably not the issue.

Going down the ICW is a daylight only proposition. Conservatively, you should plan on 35-45 miles a day. 3 days from Jax to NSB is an easy ride.

Get the engine fixed, go for it, and have fun. Tell your relatives to treat you to a seafood lunch at Bostons to celebrate your arrival in New Smyrna Beach.
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post #122 of 191 Old 05-22-2013
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Re: My Horror Story

Remember: The most accurate time to check your diesel is when the engine is fully warmed up, ie after shutdown. Why? Diesel, like everything else, expands when it warms up. If you (like I used to do) fill the dipstick to the top mark when it's cold, then when it warms up, it expands and you've got too much diesel. That's why many dipsticks say "max" at the top. They mean it.

From what I've been reading, if your diesel is truly running away (which by your smoke definitions it may well be) your problems are almost certainly because there's too much oil in the oil pan.

Now is that too much lubricating oil because you fill it slightly too much?

Is it too much lubricating oil because you have the wrong dipstick (it happens)?

Or, as Bljones suggested, you have blown an internal seal because of the fuel pressure thingy and you have diesel mixed with your oil.



The third one is the easiest to diagnose. Does your oil smell like diesel? No? Good. Now, don't ever run your engine with the pressure pump running again. Bad idea for lots of reasons.

The first and second reasons can be diagnosed by completely emptying your oil pan and measuring what comes out. Measure what goes back in and be sure you have the right dipstick.

MedSailor

PS I was really there (where you are) once. I learned by doing it all myself and by jumping into the deep end. Nobody died, and I didn't break anything of anyone else's that I didn't fix. I turned out alright.... I think.

I have a sauna on my boat, therefore I win.
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post #123 of 191 Old 05-22-2013
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Re: My Horror Story

On a diesel with a low pressure pump which is just like a pump on a gasoline motor it has a diaphragm that can leak and allow fuel to flow directly into the oil pan

Then you have a high pressure pump putting out MUCHO PSI and its fairly unlikely your pushing anything past it with a primer bulb let alone cracking open and injector

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post #124 of 191 Old 05-22-2013
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Re: My Horror Story

Harb, activecaptain has notes about shoaling issues and buoy changes on the ICW - for example for the guys who grounded & holed their Moody at Ponce Inlet, there's about 4 shoaling areas noted, with details on which side to drive and a suggestion to call the Tow guys and follow their suggestions. The Moody was right on the draft edge of the shoaling for low-tide, and they should have known that.

But if you only draw 3' board up you should be fine. Just saying there's nothing like local knowledge, and activecaptain (and getting on your VHF) are good ways to get it.
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post #125 of 191 Old 05-23-2013
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Re: My Horror Story

Sailing is a mixture of art, science and luck. Percentages may vary. You control the first two, but Huey is in charge of the last.

The art can only be acquired by practice, practice, practice. An example of art is sailing on to a mooring and coming to a dead stop, into wind with the mooring right where you can pick it up. Or taking advantage of the tide to sail under a bridge, or reading the wind shifts and tacking at the right moment. Art is being able to read the weather in real time.
A lot of the science can be learned from others and books. Science is understanding stuff like corrosion in shackles that allow your centreboard system to fail just when you need it to work. And replacing those shackles on a regular basis whether they look as if they need it or not. Ditto, rigging. Science is poor performance from a fouled hull or prop. Science is using the right antifoul paint for your particular waters to regain the performance your boat is capable of producing. Science is understanding propeller cavitation and how to cure it (possibly the cause of your engine's weird behaviour?). Engine maintenance is mostly science (though getting the beast to start and run right can be an art).
Navigation used to be a mix of both of the above, especially when we relied on celestial, but with GPS these days it is pure science for most of us. We don't need to know HOW it works but we still need to be able to apply it.
Science is being able to read a synoptic chart and deduce the weather that will come soon to a place near you.
As for luck - if Huey decides to zap your mast with a lightning bolt and fry all your new electronic gizmos, too bad, so sad. The same Huey will make up for it next time you are out with sunny skies, fair winds and a favorable tide. Don't give up because you had a bad hair day; hit a bridge, ran aground and dragged anchor. We all have had bad days; we learn, we get better at the art and the science, curse at the bad luck and give thanks to whatever we believe in for the good luck.
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Last edited by arvicola-amphibius; 05-23-2013 at 07:41 AM.
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post #126 of 191 Old 05-23-2013
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Re: My Horror Story

While I agree with MedSailor's comment about too much oil in the pan may be the cause of the run away, I want to comment about my experience with the Perkins 4-108. I bought the boat new back in 1985 and the Perkins mechanic told me at the time to over fill the oil beyound the max reading mark on the dipstick. He showed me how much to overfill it by and explained that the max given was based on a level installation and since the boat installation had the engine at a tilt it was necassary to overfill that pan. For the past 25 plus years I've always overfilled that pan and come to think about it, I've motored into some pretty bad waves causing some pretty violent movement yet no run away which is pretty scary watching that youtube video of the runway.

One other comment is that apparently the best way to stop a runaway is by plugging up the air intake, however once that condition is apparent who would want to even get close to that engine fearing metal flying off. Or is the damage done internally and no risk of engine exploding outward? One other comment....It would seem that the air intake is limited by the diameter of the intake, etc. so should'nt the engine be designed to limit the runaway condition in the first place no matter how much fuel(oil) is there?
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post #127 of 191 Old 05-23-2013
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Re: My Horror Story

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Originally Posted by lancelot9898 View Post
He showed me how much to overfill it by and explained that the max given was based on a level installation and since the boat installation had the engine at a tilt it was necassary to overfill that pan.
Don't take this as gospel. It depends on which end of the crankcase the dipstick is at.

On commercial installations, part of the sea trial procedure is to carefully measure everything and file marks in the dipsticks which come blank.

The critical thing is to avoid having the crank contact the surface of the oil. My engine is installed well over the Yanmar tilt specs and I have had some interesting adventures with oil foaming.

My experience with Yanmars makes me doubt that the runaway in this case is the result of too much oil. I would put my money on worn rings assuming we are getting an accurate report that the engine does not respond to closing the throttle.

A critical thing we don't know is if the breather hose leads directly into the intake. My 2QM20 has a nipple for the breather hose to connect to the low pressure point on the intake and it turns out that it needs that negative pressure on the crankcase to keep from blowing oil out the dipstick. I've blown a lot of oil through that hose without a runaway. I now have a liquid trap in the line, just in case.
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post #128 of 191 Old 05-24-2013
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Re: My Horror Story

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............. I am totally sure that barnacles ARE on the prop and that IS affecting propulsion............ I am not sure what the problem is. White smoke starts, then grey to black. ..............
A fouled prop can definitely result in black smoke from the exhaust.


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post #129 of 191 Old 05-24-2013
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Re: My Horror Story

All mtors have and oil capacity based on angle of installation

Even my 43 year old A4 which is mounted at 15 degrees (the Max Angle) has a rating of 3 quarts at that angle

If the motor was level it could be as high as 6 quarts which would turn into a foam bath on a 15 degree install

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post #130 of 191 Old 05-24-2013
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Re: My Horror Story

Keep in mind that the engine in question is a horizontal cylinder engine- bad rings on a horizontal engine combined with choppy water and heavy throttle usage offers the potential for a runaway engine, overfilled crankcase or not.

It's 5 o'clock somewhere:


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