My Horror Story - Page 9 - SailNet Community
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post #81 of 191 Old 05-20-2013
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Re: My Horror Story

I am betting his prop is fouled or clutch is slipping.

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post #82 of 191 Old 05-20-2013
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Re: My Horror Story

A little off topic but when was the last bottom scrub? Here in So. Cal. the water is still cold by my standers low 60's, any way I scrub it every 6-8 weeks and by the 8th week its is a little like Finding Nemo down there and the prop O boy their are little fish swimming around it. It looks like a bush around the prop. As others have sail maybe a good scrub will so the trick. Good luck the posts have been interesting.

Brad
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post #83 of 191 Old 05-20-2013
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Re: My Horror Story

Harborless,

I got to give you props for putting all that out there to be viewed, knowing its going to be criticized.

Has many have said, take a deep breath and dont give up. I'm sure many have propsed this already, but try to find someone who could asssit you. First going over the boat, then taking it out even if just to motor around at first.

We have all been there in some form or another

Cheers,
Shawn

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post #84 of 191 Old 05-20-2013
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Re: My Horror Story

Harborless, some of the things you have done don't make a whole lot of sense- like adding a fuel pump, and then pumping to build up pressure before starting. You don't need to do this.

if the engine runs away regularly, and won't die when you pull the fuel supply cut-off knob, (or kill knob, or "choke cable" as the device is also known) it's getting fuel from an additional source.
Diesels are simple engines, and problems usually occur when people try to overcomplicate them by adding parts they don't need to overcome user error.
Start with the basics- drank your crankcase oil. If it smells like diesel, and it will, you've found your problem.

By pumping fuel under pressure into the system you have likely blown any number of gaskets, o-rings, and seals, and instead of increasing reliability, you have created a problem.
Forcing too much fuel into the engine simply builds a bomb.
The only time you maybe, might, possibly need to pump fuel into the engine is after emptying the fuel filter bowl or changing the filter. this is where a diesel grade hand bulb- style pump is a thoughtful addition to the fuel system assisting bleeding.

Regarding bleeding:
You shouldn't need to bleed your fuel system very often. Bleed it when you change or drain fuel filters, if you run the tank dry, or if you have had to service any of the fuel lines and have introduced air into the system.
That's it.
That's all.
If you feel a need to bleed it more often, you simply aren't bleeding it properly.

You have an engine that is world -renowned for it's simplicity, reliability and grunt. Sometimes they can be hard to start. if you're seeing a ton of smoke, it's time to do a compression test. i bet, just based on the symptoms, you have an engine with low comp[ression due to worn rings, and those smae worn rings are letting the excess of fuel easily into the crankcase, and letting that diesel-enhanced crankcase oil back into the combustion chamber.

It's 5 o'clock somewhere:


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Last edited by bljones; 05-20-2013 at 08:18 PM.
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post #85 of 191 Old 05-20-2013
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Re: My Horror Story

And northwesterners. Oh we got depth. I can anchor so close to cliffs I could touch them if I tried.

First advice ill give you since we are doing the same thing is fix the engine and then sail like you're doing. Great advice on these forums but too much "go buy more crap, and not enough "go sail your boat". Half the answers to these posts are telling you you've no business sailing more than ten feet from the harbor, well I too don't understand how some things happened to you the way they did. Maybe we would just have to be there.

I think you have enough gear and experience to sail down the feeling coast of Florida 80 mikes I mean come on you're giving this guy a hard time? Just fix the engine and you'll be fine.


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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"There are only two three kinds of sailors who have not run aground: those who have not left the dock, northerners, and those who lie. "

Your apologies are accepted, Brian. Some of us have the luxury of water under the keel and the option of how much to keep there. Personally, I like to know there's enough so I can roll the boat and not get the mast stuck on the bottom, and that's not uncommon in the northeast.

If I had to *ick around playing inches of clearance in thin water...I'd sail a hovercraft. There's damn little reason to run aground unless you've got to use unreliable shoals and shifting inlets. We've got some of those, but I'd rather do what the old Supertramp song says and "take the long way home".

One day the owner of an expensive boat says to me, (navigating & tactics) take us in on this tack as far as you can. I said how far in do you want to go? and he shouts "I told you, take us in as far as we can go". I said that's OK by me, personally I'd tack in ten feet but you tell me we draw six foot six, so if you really want to push it, I'll be glad to go in to SEVEN feet just remember, if we hit some debris down there, I wanted to tack at ten feet.

We tacked in ten. Rockhopping is a rich man's sport. You lucky sonsasailors just get it muddy when you go aground, that hardly counts as "aground". (G)
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post #86 of 191 Old 05-20-2013
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Re: My Horror Story

In regards to your yanmar running away, I've seen happen a few times. The cause is generally due to the engine sucking in engine oil and combusting it as fuel. That's why the fuel shut off does not stop the engine, it's not running on engine fuel at the time of runaway.
When it happens you will see tons of smoke. Also you'll see raw fuel/oil exiting the exhaust along with all that smoke.

The simplest reason for this is an overfilled crankcase. Check your oil level, the solution might be as simple as draining out some oil to the proper level.

Another possibility is you have an extremely worn engine. It would have to be very far gone to routinely suck enough engine oil past the rings to run away like you say. A compression test should tell the tale.

I'm voting for overfilled engine oil.

Oh, you are right on that cutting off airflow is the only way to stop it. But do consider using something other than bare hand to cover the air intake. Plywood or starboard would be good if you have some scraps.

Ps bravo for putting it all out there.

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post #87 of 191 Old 05-20-2013
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Re: My Horror Story

Quote:
Originally Posted by northoceanbeach View Post
I think you have enough gear and experience to sail down the feeling coast of Florida 80 mikes I mean come on you're giving this guy a hard time?
Damned dangerous advice to be giving from the northwest where the water is deep, as you say.

I've sailed the northwest myself. I've also sailed almost the exact route where this horror show happened.

If he couldn't navigate from that point A to point B without running aground and you think he should be trying to find his way into a southeastern ocean inlet, tired and fuzzy thinking after an 80 mile solo sail, you haven't seen what can happen in shoal water and ocean swells.

Written by someone who has looked up at the inside of the tube of a breaking wave from a cruising sailboat a few minutes after the owner said, "It's my boat, I'll sail it where I damn well please and, if you don't like it, you can sit in the cabin."
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post #88 of 191 Old 05-20-2013
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Re: My Horror Story

How long were you at Ortega? We bought our boat there in August and spent about 2 months traveling up there to work on her. If you've been there a year, it's likely we met.

We made the same trip you are, from the same marina, with similar destinations and less experience. The boat we bought at Ortega was our first and sailing her south from Ortega was the first time we sailed a boat on our own, so we had some lessons too.

Fortunately for us, the community at Ortega was awesome and everyone there gave us a lot of good advice on planning and such, so we planned our departure to go with the tide, which in our case bought us 2 or 3 knots. Had we not done that, we would have likely made many of the same mistakes. What's worse, the winds were not favorable and we had to motor with our 6hp outboard much of the way (our boat is 27ft, close to 8000lbs). I was a nervous wreck most of the way and found that contributed to a lot of the mistakes we made.

My general suggestion is to chill out and take everything in stride, take a deep breath. We ran aground too, but we saw some cool birds and my wife learned to stay closer to the markers and GPS. Lesson learned.

As I mentioned in your other thread, keep an eye out for the entrance to the ICW, if you take it. Apparently it used to be well marked, I don't know when that was but it wasn't the case when we got there. There is also a restricted area nearby (or was 6 months ago) and submerged rocks. It is not anything to be worried about, but you need to keep a keen eye out and make sure you don't pass it, we almost did. We got there at low tide, I'd imagine most of the rocks would be submerged at high tide, so don't make any shortcuts.

Sea Tow is invaluable, but keep in mind they take 1-2 hours to arrive. We were 5 miles from one of their boats in JAX beach and it took them over an hour to arrive. They were awesome, but don't expect speedy service, I'd flag down another boater while you wait and call to let Sea Tow know you've been pulled off. I'd say with almost certainty you will run aground, more likely depending on what kind of equipment you have. The ICW in that area is not well maintained and you have to use your intuition to figure out how to follow the markers. If you have a GPS and stick to the marked channel, you'll be fine. The Sea Tow captains are also really helpful if you call ahead and need advice on certain areas, which I'd advise prior to arriving in St Augustine, as that area can be deceiving depth wise.

If it makes you feel any better, when we made this trip we almost missed the ICW, ended up doing 3 loops trying to get the headsail down outside the mouth of the ICW, nearly hit a buoy too. On day 2, we ran aground 5 miles from the marina we were at that night. On day 3, our motor died, I freaked out and tossed the anchor over the stern, the current pulled us around and nearly got wrapped around the motor, I had to cut anchor. I learned a lot of lessons in those 3 days. You'll find yourself a lot more relaxed if you just expect things to go wrong and deal with it as it comes.

We stopped at a JAX Beach Marina for the night, everyone was friendly, the accommodations were nice, and the food was decent. When you stop in St. Augustine, be sure to hit up Columbia's downtown.

Have fun and remember you are probably doing more sailing now that many people on this board have in the past year. Enjoy the learning experience, I know we did and still are.
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post #89 of 191 Old 05-20-2013
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Re: My Horror Story

Dude. It's Florida. What are the waves today, .5 feet with 7 knots of onshore wind?

You don't get killed running aground in a channel when it's 80 degrees outside. It may suck but he's not rounding the cape.

It's Florida. You'll be fine*. We've got lakes in this country rougher than Florida

* unless there's a hurricane
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post #90 of 191 Old 05-20-2013
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Re: My Horror Story

Harborless,

You said you messed with the governor "mechanism". Is it possible that a spring or fork lever is getting stuck somehow? Does the "runaway" occur after you were at full throttle and will simply not throttle down? Was it reassembled correctly? Is the fuel control rack lever sliding smoothly?
Lastly, is the throttle cable and lever sticking?

Last edited by weinie; 05-20-2013 at 09:33 PM.
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