SailNet Community

SailNet Community (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/)
-   General Discussion (sailing related) (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/)
-   -   It's Not Just Containers..... (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/99814-its-not-just-containers.html)

capta 05-24-2013 03:08 PM

It's Not Just Containers.....
 
After months of drifting across the North Atlantic, a luckless, abandoned cruise ship spotted drifting off the coast of Ireland may have finally sunk beneath the waves.
The Lyubov Orlova, a 328-foot-long (100 meters) vessel named after a Russian screen siren from the 1930s, was built in 1976 and chartered for expeditions to polar waters.
But after the ship was abandoned in 2010 in Newfoundland, Canada, the Lyubov Orlova was sold for scrap to an outfit in the Dominican Republic.
While the ship was being towed to its Caribbean destination in January 2013, the towline snapped in rough seas and the crew was unable to reconnect the line, leaving the ship to drift eastward across the Atlantic Ocean.
With no crew, no warning lights and no GPS system, the ship appeared doomed. But in February, the ship was spotted by the Atlantic Hawk, an oil industry supply ship, which managed to attach a towline.
Transport Canada, however, ordered the Atlantic Hawk to release the vessel since it was by then in international waters and no longer under Canadian jurisdiction.
The ship hasn't been seen in months......
Could this explain the Lady Domina's disappearance?

Omatako 05-24-2013 04:11 PM

Re: It's Not Just Containers.....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by capta (Post 1034987)
The ship hasn't been seen in months......
Could this explain the Lady Domina's disappearance?

I'd be really keen to read about why it was abandoned in the first place. That's a lot of ship. I recently saw a TV article on the disassembly of old ships in India and the report said that the average price paid by the scrap metal merchants for the redundant ships was around $5m.

Why would anyone abandon that?

Classic30 05-28-2013 03:29 AM

Re: It's Not Just Containers.....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Omatako (Post 1035028)
I'd be really keen to read about why it was abandoned in the first place. That's a lot of ship. I recently saw a TV article on the disassembly of old ships in India and the report said that the average price paid by the scrap metal merchants for the redundant ships was around $5m.

Why would anyone abandon that?

Unpaid Debt.

According to the usual sources: "In September 2010, Lyubov Orlova was seized at St John's, Newfoundland due to debts of US$251,000 owed to the charterer, Cruise North Expeditions, from a cancelled cruise due to faults with the ship. In addition, the 51 crew members had not been paid in five months. She was arrested in Newfoundland, and sold to Neptune International Shipping, in February 2012, to be broken up."

The "disassembly of old ships in India" (that's the nice way to describe it :) ) requires getting the ship there in the first place. Whatever was wrong with this ship, it seems certain it couldn't get from the Atlantic to the Indian on it's own - and transport isn't cheap. I suspect you'd find that, even if you got the ship for free (which you wouldn't), by the time you got it to the shores of India you'd have little or no change left from $5M..

FWIW, the usual method of "disassembly" in such cases is to find a disused river port (ie. no berthing fees applicable) somewhere not far from a major road and cut the ship up in-situ, hoping like anything you don't cause an oil spill and/or have the thing sink on you in the process.. but the easiest (and least capital outlay) is to hope it sinks at sea and forget all about it.

"On February 28 the ship was the subject of news reports in Iceland and Ireland, and a caution to smaller vessels was issued. On March 1st 2013 Irish media reported that a signal from the vessel’s emergency position-indicating radio beacon (EPIRB) was received from 700 nautical miles off the Kerry coast, still in international waters. An EPIRB only starts transmitting when the device is exposed to water, leading experts to believe the ship had finally sunk. The Irish Air Corps began monitoring the region. As of 22 April 2013, there was no trace of the ship"

Boasun 05-28-2013 12:30 PM

Re: It's Not Just Containers.....
 
And to top it off; You have some enviomentalist nut job saying that that ship will be releasing it fuel/lube oils and other hazardous flopsum that will poison the ocean.
Normally when a ship is going to the scrap yard all of the above has already been removed. So I guess that he wants the worlds governments to spend millions while doing a dire search for said ship....... like that will ever happen.

mad_machine 05-28-2013 04:15 PM

Re: It's Not Just Containers.....
 
hopefully it was emptied, or it will release all that gunk into the water.

BTW.. it is Flotsam

Brent Swain 05-28-2013 04:42 PM

Re: It's Not Just Containers.....
 
That's why I would never go to sea in a boat which was not made of steel.

Omatako 05-28-2013 05:04 PM

Re: It's Not Just Containers.....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boasun (Post 1036369)
And to top it off; You have some enviomentalist nut job saying that that ship will be releasing it fuel/lube oils and other hazardous flopsum that will poison the ocean.

The nut job is probably right . . .;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mad_machine (Post 1036369)
hopefully it was emptied, or it will release all that gunk into the water.

If it was abandoned the removal of fluids is pretty unlikely

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartley 18 (Post 1036369)
Whatever was wrong with this ship, it seems certain it couldn't get from the Atlantic to the Indian on it's own - and transport isn't cheap. I suspect you'd find that, even if you got the ship for free (which you wouldn't), by the time you got it to the shores of India you'd have little or no change left from $5M..

Obviously the more developed markets around the Atlantic have no use for scrap metal. :) And if the ship was abandoned, you probably would get it for free - I wouldn't think that just because you put a line on it doesn't mean you accept it's outstanding liabilities.

ShoalFinder 05-28-2013 05:47 PM

Re: It's Not Just Containers.....
 
5 million sounds like a lot of money until you factor in the giant debacle that will follow when somebody actually comes into possession of this hulk. I'd like to know what the total cost of salvage, towing, HAZMAT collection and disposal, back taxes, outstanding liens, legal fees, etc all add up to. Every swinging d**k owed money by the former owner is going to show up with his lawyer looking for a cut.

At this point, I'm guessing that everyone involved is hoping the thing is declared a hazard to navigation so that somebody's Navy will sink the damned thing.

ShoalFinder 05-28-2013 05:52 PM

Re: It's Not Just Containers.....
 
Personally, I wish they'd put a coat of paint on the outside and let it drift off the coast of Somalia as pirate bait... with a SEAL team onboard.

Classic30 05-28-2013 07:19 PM

Re: It's Not Just Containers.....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Omatako (Post 1036546)
Obviously the more developed markets around the Atlantic have no use for scrap metal. :)

For sure there are scrap metal markets all over the world - but you need to convert said ship to scrap metal first. You mentioned the Indian one, so I went with that - having personal knowledge of how that place works as it relates to one particular ship (based mainly in the Atlantic) that finished up there a few years back.. The Indian operation is certainly the world's largest and ships are sent there from everyplace - but usually as a 'final voyage' under their own steam.

(BTW, the stuff you can buy there for 'scrap value' is pretty impressive.. virtually new equipment: radios, nav gear, generators, air compressors, whatever you can think of on an old ship - all in working condition, complete with manuals - at a cost in $/tonne! Brent would think he was in heaven! :D)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omatako (Post 1036546)
And if the ship was abandoned, you probably would get it for free - I wouldn't think that just because you put a line on it doesn't mean you accept it's outstanding liabilities.

Unfortunately, that's not the case. Not with commercially-registered ships, anyway. Shoalfinder nailed this one :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omatako (Post 1036546)
If it was abandoned the removal of fluids is pretty unlikely.

Correct - but largely irrelevant. It doesn't take a vast amount of oil on the water to trigger a response from the EPA and an old, steel, fuel oil-driven ship in need of scrapping will still have oil-coated bilges, inter-tank and engine spaces, not to mention all of the winches, ventilation fans and other items of mechanical gear all liberally coated in grease. Even if the fuel tanks were empty (is that really possible with fuel oil?) it'll make a mess. I guess one saving grace might be that the cold water temperatures up there might contain it all for a bit..

But it wasn't all that long ago people were encouraged to carry 'oil bags' and drip a bit over the side in a storm to deliberately create a slick. :rolleyes:


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:35 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012