Cheap Classic Plastic smokes the fleet in 2013 Down the Bay Race - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree28Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 05-26-2013
jameswilson29's Avatar
Senior Smart Aleck
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 2,038
Thanks: 26
Thanked 64 Times in 59 Posts
Rep Power: 6
jameswilson29 is on a distinguished road
Cheap Classic Plastic smokes the fleet in 2013 Down the Bay Race

For all those folks propagating the B.S. that newer and more expensive sailboats are necessarily better sailboats, classic plastic smoked the fleet of boats, including those costing 10 to 20 times more this weekend.

A 1983 Hobie 33 "Mirage" and a J/24 sailboat "Rocket J" corrected to 1st and 2nd place respectively in the 2013 Down the Bay Race. a 140 mile overnight race from Annapolis, MD, to Hampton, VA, with a strong Northwest wind propelling the boats to record time.

The Hobie 33 (probably less than 20K) not only corrected to 1st, but also beat two J/120, a Sabre 426, a Jeanneau 409, a Catalina 387, a J/42, and a Benneteau First 36.7 on elapsed time.

Race results: Yacht Scoring - A complete web based regatta administration and yacht scoring program
Faster, jppp, bljones and 4 others like this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 05-26-2013
PBzeer's Avatar
Wandering Aimlessly
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Cruising
Posts: 19,924
Thanks: 0
Thanked 81 Times in 78 Posts
Rep Power: 14
PBzeer has a spectacular aura about PBzeer has a spectacular aura about PBzeer has a spectacular aura about
Re: Cheap Classic Plastic smokes the fleet in 2013 Down the Bay Race

Sometimes, it's not how well the boat sails, but how well you sail the boat.
__________________
John
Ontario 32 - Aria

Free, is the heart, that lives not, in fear.
Full, is the spirit, that thinks not, of falling.
True, is the soul, that hesitates not, to give.
Alive, is the one, that believes, in love.
JCP


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Website & Blog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 05-26-2013
jameswilson29's Avatar
Senior Smart Aleck
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 2,038
Thanks: 26
Thanked 64 Times in 59 Posts
Rep Power: 6
jameswilson29 is on a distinguished road
Re: Cheap Classic Plastic smokes the fleet in 2013 Down the Bay Race

Agreed, and perhaps those owning a $10K - $20K debt free raceboat are more willing to push the envelope when it is blowing in the 20s.

What is fascinating about these results is that a classic J/24, a good all around racer first designed and built in Rod Johnstone's garage some 40 years ago, in the days before computer design and high tech materials, can still go out and stomp $200-300K boats, boat-to-boat.
rugosa likes this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 05-26-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Corpus Christi, Tx
Posts: 959
Thanks: 13
Thanked 19 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 9
ccriders is on a distinguished road
Re: Cheap Classic Plastic smokes the fleet in 2013 Down the Bay Race

Dang James, I thought you were going to tell us you smoked them in your P28. Wouldn't that have been something? I like what PB says, especially when I overtake a larger, newer boat, which isn''t often as they are not often sailing.
John
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 05-26-2013
SVAuspicious's Avatar
Mermaid Hunter
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: on the boat - Chesapeake
Posts: 3,140
Thanks: 0
Thanked 79 Times in 68 Posts
Rep Power: 8
SVAuspicious will become famous soon enough
Re: Cheap Classic Plastic smokes the fleet in 2013 Down the Bay Race

Quote:
Originally Posted by PBzeer View Post
Sometimes, it's not how well the boat sails, but how well you sail the boat.
Always.
Faster likes this.
__________________
sail fast and eat well, dave
S/V Auspicious
AuspiciousWorks.com
beware "cut and paste" sailors.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 05-26-2013
tommays's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,234
Thanks: 1
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 6
tommays will become famous soon enough
Re: Cheap Classic Plastic smokes the fleet in 2013 Down the Bay Race

Well





As a TWO TIME J24 owner going back to 1981 i can assure you it was a good thing there was no real UPWIND work as it would have been a slow REALLY WET submarine ride

In reaching conditions like that 9 knots steady with plenty of 12 knots surfs is easy and you will sail well above the rating

When you gotta make it home upwind and there is any kind of sea your VMG is going to be down in the 4 knot range

Same deal with the Hobie cant go upwind
__________________
1970 Cal 29 Sea Fever

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1981 J24 Tangent 2930
Tommays
Northport NY


If a dirty bottom slows you down what do you think it does to your boat
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 05-26-2013
Unkle Toad's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: South Puget Sound
Posts: 123
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 2
Unkle Toad is on a distinguished road
Re: Cheap Classic Plastic smokes the fleet in 2013 Down the Bay Race

ok so it looks like the conditions were good for the 2 older boats who also had great crew and knew what to do with it .. what I take from this is that all the advancements in hull design and everything are pulling small %'s out of the air but the majority of it is still around the crew and conditions.
jameswilson29 and BentSailor like this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to Unkle Toad For This Useful Post:
RickWestlake (05-27-2013)
  #8  
Old 05-26-2013
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,162
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: Cheap Classic Plastic smokes the fleet in 2013 Down the Bay Race

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
For all those folks propagating the B.S. that newer and more expensive sailboats are necessarily better sailboats, classic plastic smoked the fleet of boats, including those costing 10 to 20 times more this weekend.

A 1983 Hobie 33 "Mirage" and a J/24 sailboat "Rocket J" corrected to 1st and 2nd place respectively in the 2013 Down the Bay Race. a 140 mile overnight race from Annapolis, MD, to Hampton, VA, with a strong Northwest wind propelling the boats to record time.

The Hobie 33 (probably less than 20K) not only corrected to 1st, but also beat two J/120, a Sabre 426, a Jeanneau 409, a Catalina 387, a J/42, and a Benneteau First 36.7 on elapsed time.

Race results: Yacht Scoring - A complete web based regatta administration and yacht scoring program
And what that means?

First of all that the Hobie 33 was much better sailed than any other boat. The boat beat by 1h e 20m all boats with an identical performance (PHRF).

Second, comparing the performance of the Hobbie 33 with the one of the a Jeanneau 409 or the Catalina 387 is not meaningful, not only because they are not the same type of boat but also because those two boats were in a class that does not use spinnaker.

Third, if the idea was to say that old boats can beat new boats the fact is that there was not any recent boat racing on the A2 class, the class where raced the Hobbie 33 and on the other "racing" class there were racing only two recent boats, a Farr 400 and a TP 52.

The Hobie 33 made and incredible race, in 10h 58m, the Farr 400 has done it in 9h 4m and the TP 52, in 7h 3m. These are race boats and not comparable with the Hobbie 33, that is not also comparable with a Jeanneau or a Catalina. The Hobie 33 was one of the first ultra light displacement boats, much of a race boat in its time and an expensive boat when new.

Among the boats without spinnaker the very bad time of the Jeanneau 409 can only be explained by a very badly sailed boat but the times of the other modern cruisers on that class, like the Jeanneau 42i (12h 41m) and the one of the Catalina 385 (14h 10m) compare very favorably with older boats of the same type using spinnaker, like the Sabre 426 (12h 44m), J40 (12h 20m and J42 (13h 32m). A spinnaker makes a big difference in a boat speed.

Regards

Paulo
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by PCP; 05-26-2013 at 05:33 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 05-26-2013
SchockT's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: North Vancouver, BC
Posts: 1,422
Thanks: 1
Thanked 27 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 3
SchockT is on a distinguished road
Re: Cheap Classic Plastic smokes the fleet in 2013 Down the Bay Race

Not to take anything away from those boats, as they clearly sailed a good race, but you can't put too much stock in overall results in a phrf fleet with a 280 point spread! The system just doesn't work well in those circumstances.

To declare the J24 and Hobie 33 to be superior boats to all the others based on that result is just a bit silly.

Having said that, I agree that beating big expensive boats with an old beater is fun!
__________________
1979 Santana 30 Tall Rig
Hull#101

Last edited by SchockT; 05-26-2013 at 11:19 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 05-26-2013
Rhys05's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Indiana
Posts: 231
Thanks: 4
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Rhys05 is on a distinguished road
Re: Cheap Classic Plastic smokes the fleet in 2013 Down the Bay Race

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchockT View Post
Not to take anything away from those boats, as they clearly sailed a good race, but you can't put too much stock in overall results in a phrf fleet with a 280 point spread! The system just doesn't work well in those circumstances.

To declare the J24 and Hobie 33 to be superior boats to all the others based on that result is just a bit silly.

Having said that, I agree that beating big expensive boats with an old beater is fun!
^^ This. I mean, in a PHRF race a Westsail 32 can "beat" an Open 60...nevermind the fact that the Open 60 completed the race twelve hours before the Westsail... I'll take the (objectively) faster boat, thanks. (caveat being, of course, that I could afford to own a Westsail, I couldn't afford a single sail for the Open 60...) Point being that the results of a PHRF race have very little to do with the boats, and everything to do with the sailor(s) and the conditions of the race.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Plastic Classic Forum... Squidd General Discussion (sailing related) 14 12-27-2013 09:29 AM
OKI 24-hr Sailing Race 2013 NewsReader News Feeds 0 02-25-2013 05:40 AM
2013 Milang Goolwa Freshwater Classic Elanora General Discussion (sailing related) 4 10-30-2012 04:39 PM
Classic Yacht Race ncarter Racing 6 02-28-2011 08:39 AM
looking for Classic Plastic dickschellens Boat Review and Purchase Forum 3 02-01-2002 02:25 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:58 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.