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  #1  
Old 05-26-2013
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Cheap Classic Plastic smokes the fleet in 2013 Down the Bay Race

For all those folks propagating the B.S. that newer and more expensive sailboats are necessarily better sailboats, classic plastic smoked the fleet of boats, including those costing 10 to 20 times more this weekend.

A 1983 Hobie 33 "Mirage" and a J/24 sailboat "Rocket J" corrected to 1st and 2nd place respectively in the 2013 Down the Bay Race. a 140 mile overnight race from Annapolis, MD, to Hampton, VA, with a strong Northwest wind propelling the boats to record time.

The Hobie 33 (probably less than 20K) not only corrected to 1st, but also beat two J/120, a Sabre 426, a Jeanneau 409, a Catalina 387, a J/42, and a Benneteau First 36.7 on elapsed time.

Race results: Yacht Scoring - A complete web based regatta administration and yacht scoring program
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Old 05-26-2013
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Re: Cheap Classic Plastic smokes the fleet in 2013 Down the Bay Race

Sometimes, it's not how well the boat sails, but how well you sail the boat.
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Old 05-26-2013
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Re: Cheap Classic Plastic smokes the fleet in 2013 Down the Bay Race

Agreed, and perhaps those owning a $10K - $20K debt free raceboat are more willing to push the envelope when it is blowing in the 20s.

What is fascinating about these results is that a classic J/24, a good all around racer first designed and built in Rod Johnstone's garage some 40 years ago, in the days before computer design and high tech materials, can still go out and stomp $200-300K boats, boat-to-boat.
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Old 05-26-2013
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Re: Cheap Classic Plastic smokes the fleet in 2013 Down the Bay Race

Dang James, I thought you were going to tell us you smoked them in your P28. Wouldn't that have been something? I like what PB says, especially when I overtake a larger, newer boat, which isn''t often as they are not often sailing.
John
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Old 05-26-2013
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Re: Cheap Classic Plastic smokes the fleet in 2013 Down the Bay Race

Quote:
Originally Posted by PBzeer View Post
Sometimes, it's not how well the boat sails, but how well you sail the boat.
Always.
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Old 05-26-2013
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Re: Cheap Classic Plastic smokes the fleet in 2013 Down the Bay Race

Well





As a TWO TIME J24 owner going back to 1981 i can assure you it was a good thing there was no real UPWIND work as it would have been a slow REALLY WET submarine ride

In reaching conditions like that 9 knots steady with plenty of 12 knots surfs is easy and you will sail well above the rating

When you gotta make it home upwind and there is any kind of sea your VMG is going to be down in the 4 knot range

Same deal with the Hobie cant go upwind
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Old 05-26-2013
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Re: Cheap Classic Plastic smokes the fleet in 2013 Down the Bay Race

ok so it looks like the conditions were good for the 2 older boats who also had great crew and knew what to do with it .. what I take from this is that all the advancements in hull design and everything are pulling small %'s out of the air but the majority of it is still around the crew and conditions.
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Old 05-26-2013
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Re: Cheap Classic Plastic smokes the fleet in 2013 Down the Bay Race

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
For all those folks propagating the B.S. that newer and more expensive sailboats are necessarily better sailboats, classic plastic smoked the fleet of boats, including those costing 10 to 20 times more this weekend.

A 1983 Hobie 33 "Mirage" and a J/24 sailboat "Rocket J" corrected to 1st and 2nd place respectively in the 2013 Down the Bay Race. a 140 mile overnight race from Annapolis, MD, to Hampton, VA, with a strong Northwest wind propelling the boats to record time.

The Hobie 33 (probably less than 20K) not only corrected to 1st, but also beat two J/120, a Sabre 426, a Jeanneau 409, a Catalina 387, a J/42, and a Benneteau First 36.7 on elapsed time.

Race results: Yacht Scoring - A complete web based regatta administration and yacht scoring program
And what that means?

First of all that the Hobie 33 was much better sailed than any other boat. The boat beat by 1h e 20m all boats with an identical performance (PHRF).

Second, comparing the performance of the Hobbie 33 with the one of the a Jeanneau 409 or the Catalina 387 is not meaningful, not only because they are not the same type of boat but also because those two boats were in a class that does not use spinnaker.

Third, if the idea was to say that old boats can beat new boats the fact is that there was not any recent boat racing on the A2 class, the class where raced the Hobbie 33 and on the other "racing" class there were racing only two recent boats, a Farr 400 and a TP 52.

The Hobie 33 made and incredible race, in 10h 58m, the Farr 400 has done it in 9h 4m and the TP 52, in 7h 3m. These are race boats and not comparable with the Hobbie 33, that is not also comparable with a Jeanneau or a Catalina. The Hobie 33 was one of the first ultra light displacement boats, much of a race boat in its time and an expensive boat when new.

Among the boats without spinnaker the very bad time of the Jeanneau 409 can only be explained by a very badly sailed boat but the times of the other modern cruisers on that class, like the Jeanneau 42i (12h 41m) and the one of the Catalina 385 (14h 10m) compare very favorably with older boats of the same type using spinnaker, like the Sabre 426 (12h 44m), J40 (12h 20m and J42 (13h 32m). A spinnaker makes a big difference in a boat speed.

Regards

Paulo
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Old 05-26-2013
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Re: Cheap Classic Plastic smokes the fleet in 2013 Down the Bay Race

Not to take anything away from those boats, as they clearly sailed a good race, but you can't put too much stock in overall results in a phrf fleet with a 280 point spread! The system just doesn't work well in those circumstances.

To declare the J24 and Hobie 33 to be superior boats to all the others based on that result is just a bit silly.

Having said that, I agree that beating big expensive boats with an old beater is fun!
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Old 05-27-2013
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Re: Cheap Classic Plastic smokes the fleet in 2013 Down the Bay Race

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchockT View Post
Not to take anything away from those boats, as they clearly sailed a good race, but you can't put too much stock in overall results in a phrf fleet with a 280 point spread! The system just doesn't work well in those circumstances.

To declare the J24 and Hobie 33 to be superior boats to all the others based on that result is just a bit silly.

Having said that, I agree that beating big expensive boats with an old beater is fun!
^^ This. I mean, in a PHRF race a Westsail 32 can "beat" an Open 60...nevermind the fact that the Open 60 completed the race twelve hours before the Westsail... I'll take the (objectively) faster boat, thanks. (caveat being, of course, that I could afford to own a Westsail, I couldn't afford a single sail for the Open 60...) Point being that the results of a PHRF race have very little to do with the boats, and everything to do with the sailor(s) and the conditions of the race.
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