Sailing yesterday - lessons learned? - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 27 Old 05-28-2013
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Re: Sailing yesterday - lessons learned?

As a general rule of thumb for positioning genoa track cars, an imaginary line extending from the block, through the clew (the line of the jib sheet) and out to the luff of the sail should intersect the mid-luff position. This is a decent starting point, moving forward in light winds or if the top breaks early, aft if windier or lower telltales break early..


Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
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post #12 of 27 Old 05-28-2013
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Sailing yesterday - lessons learned?

It surely was very windy both Saturday and Sunday in Eastern Long Island. You commented on the tide. Remember that the current is not the same as the tide, though it causes much of the current. It will pay for you to look at Eldridge's or other sources for the current tables. You are quite close to the Race with some extreme currents.
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post #13 of 27 Old 05-28-2013
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Re: Sailing yesterday - lessons learned?

I also believe that tide and current could have been of great influence
Sunday inBoston, wind at 20 gusting 25+
Small storm gib, 2reefs in main...8.5 k when reaching
But when returning to harbor with headwinds, toerail in the water , I had misjudged thetide Boat stopped completely and at one point we where even going backward!

Never had this : Strong winds, rail in the water and loosing ground
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post #14 of 27 Old 05-28-2013
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Re: Sailing yesterday - lessons learned?

Even with some experience under your belt, sometimes you go out and everything clicks ... the wind is just right, your sails raise or unfurl perfectly, etc. Other sails seem like a battle with few wins. It's not bad that you sailed with main only ... now you know what to expect.

David
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Pearson 35 - s/v Tiger Lily
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post #15 of 27 Old 05-28-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Sailing yesterday - lessons learned?

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Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
When you say the genoa was luffiing...can you clarify?..Was it confined to the leech?

If so, you'd want to move the fairlead back .. If at the luff you were porbably pinching too.
It was luffing at the leech. Thanks for the advice about the fairlead.

A few people have mentioned heeling, and it suddenly struck me that while we were heeling, it wasn't to the extent that I would have expected given the conditions. Strange. I'm certain about the wind direction and our point of sail. We had the mainsail in as far as we could, and it wasn't luffing so I don't think we were in irons. But why wouldn't we have been excessively heeling? The B24s are known for being tender to about 20 degrees and then holding firm, but I'm sure we weren't at 20. I'm truly puzzled now.

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post #16 of 27 Old 05-28-2013
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Re: Sailing yesterday - lessons learned?

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Originally Posted by cthoops View Post
It was luffing at the leech. Thanks for the advice about the fairlead.

A few people have mentioned heeling, and it suddenly struck me that while we were heeling, it wasn't to the extent that I would have expected given the conditions. Strange. I'm certain about the wind direction and our point of sail. We had the mainsail in as far as we could, and it wasn't luffing so I don't think we were in irons. But why wouldn't we have been excessively heeling? The B24s are known for being tender to about 20 degrees and then holding firm, but I'm sure we weren't at 20. I'm truly puzzled now.
You were likely 'pinching off' the heel, that would also be why the jib was luffing and why you had no drive forward in those conditions... Could be as simple as trying to sail too close to the wind.

Although you speak of a fluttering/luffing leech.. The leech is, of course, the trailing edge of the sail and that's a leech line tension issue but on its own would not have caused the issues you're describing..

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
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post #17 of 27 Old 05-28-2013
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Re: Sailing yesterday - lessons learned?

Flagging at the leech may not be an issue. If the sail is near the end of it's life then it just indicates that you have a tired sail, not a trim problem. There is probably a leech line that can be used to control it, but be careful not to over tighten it and artificially tighten the leech.

Do you have sail tells? The most important thing to watch are the two lower tells on the genoa. If they were both flying backwards then the sail trim was okay. Your main sail probably has tells on the leech (one at each batten), and those should be flying backwards. If they are flying to windward then you are over trimmed.

If you have a more experienced person that can go out with you they can give you some feedback on your sails. It's possible that either the sails are fine and trim would fix the leech issue, or that they are quite worn. I know that sails which looked good to me when I bought my first boat clearly look pretty shot to me now that I see them through more experienced eyes. It's amazing how much higher boats will point with good sails. Good sails don't need to be expensive either, the new owner of the Catalina 25 that I sail on got a great (hank-on) lightly used genoa for under $200 that is letting us point at least 5 degrees higher than we could with the old one.

Note that bringing in the mainsail as far as it will go will result in excessive weatherhelm on most boats. Bringing the boom all the way into the centerline may not work very well. Use the old phrase "when in doubt, let it out" and let the main out until it luffs (the front foot is flagging), then bring it in slightly to trim.

Good luck and enjoy the new boat!

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post #18 of 27 Old 05-29-2013
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Re: Sailing yesterday - lessons learned?

While roller furling is a convenient way to reduce sail it is not an efficient way to reduce sail. Your 130 is designed to be just that and only that. The moment you start rolling it up it is loosing its intended shape. While still somewhat effective with a few turns of the furler, when the wind picks up and you need two good sails main and jib to claw into the wind, the small portion of the 130% rolled up jib still sticking out does not resemble the shape a 90% or storm jib that should be there in its place at that time.

As faster was saying you might look at a smaller head sail if you have that option to start out the day with big winds. If the boat is overpowered and suffering from windward helm, the luffing could be a result of lack of control. Try reducing the main as well as jib to help control the boat.

One last consideration is the age of the sail. If they are old and tired they might not get the windward performance you need in a blow.

Jordan
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Oceanside CA
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Re: Sailing yesterday - lessons learned?

Thank you so much everyone for the great advice. I only have a few acquaintances who sail so it's great to be able to get a wider perspective on this site.

It crossed my mind that the genoa may be rather old, so we'll have to look into that. A jib is also high on the list for next season so that we can have two sails in heavier winds.

One of the things that I love so much about sailing is that there is so much to learn. While we can certainly go out and sail, there's a difference between merely knowing how to sail and being able to sail well. I know that when we look back at the end of the sailing season we'll be amazed at our growth.

While we were a bit rattled by our experience on Monday, we learned quite a few things and we didn't wreck the boat, so that's important! As I said to Mr. cthoops, sometimes the ocean lets you play in it, and sometimes it shows you who's the boss.

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post #20 of 27 Old 05-29-2013
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Re: Sailing yesterday - lessons learned?

What book on sail trim did you order? I think that's the next step for me, too.

Donnie Harris
1980 O'Day 23
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