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Helms 25 Centerboard restoration

15K views 20 replies 7 participants last post by  TheManKinahan 
#1 ·
Hello all!

I couldn't get back into my slip last weekend and realized that it was because my centerboard had become disconnected from the bracket at the end of the pennant and was hanging down.

With some help, I managed to get a rope around it under both sides of the boat, back to the stern cleats, and to the jib winches, and used that to pull it up enough to get the boat into the slip.

The boatyard hauled the boat on Monday and I got my first look at the bottom and the centerboard. (Boat was a gift and I had never seen the bottom)

The centerboard seems to be badly rusted. (Photos below) I am trying to figure out the best plan moving forward to fix it. I sent the plans that I found online for the centerboard to a machine shop and they want about $2500 for a new one. That includes cutting it out and machine grinding the taper.

Some people have recommended having the existing one sandblasted and to get a welder to add material where it has rusted away. I haven't priced that yet.

I have a couple of questions. What thoughts do people have about how I might fix this? Also, if I decide to sandblast, I guess it would be more thorough to remove the keel from the boat. Has anyone removed the pin that supports it? I know that it is accessible under the port side forward bench. Is it hard to take out and replace?

Here are photos of the centerboard right now. Thanks for any advice!!
--Willie



 
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#2 ·
Oy!
The right way to fix this would be to drop the center board completely by knocking that pin out. It does not look like a fun job though as your center board is pretty rusty and looks heavy. At least this way you will be able to inspect the top of the center board where it pivots on the pin; it may be badly worn/rusted as well.
Using an angle grinder and various grinding wheels you should be able to clean up much of the surface rust. You will likely need some welding done to repair the lower attachment point that seems to be where the missing chunk is on the trailing edge.
The entire metal board could then be treated with Ospho or Naval Jelly to stop the rust.
Using epoxy some cloth and fillers you could then coat the entire thing in fiberglass.
It would not be as good as a new $2500 center board but it would likely last quite a while if done properly.

Good luck.
 
#3 ·
That sure is purdy.
I believe Caleb is right insofar as the most economical way to approach this. Pulling the board and grinding it clean would be the place to start. Then having some material added by welding on to the most damaged sections and regrinding to shape. As long as most of the original thickness is present, the board should have sufficient strength to be repaired. Ospho or Naval Jelly treatment and the refairing with epoxy as mentioned would probably give you a number of years at much less cost. Btw I noted the estimate you sent for the new board; Fairing, coating, surfacing, paint and delivery were not included in the cost and could easily come to several hundred more dollars.
A quick calculation indicates that the board should weigh about 310 lbs +/- 20lbs, so it could be removed in the yard with use of a scissor jack and an extra hand or two. Pounding out the old pin will likely be a bit of a pain, but very doable.

Let me know what you think.
 
#6 ·
Thanks both for the advice! The yard has recommended a welder who is going to come take a look at it.

In the mean time I am entertaining myself scraping the old bottom paint.

--Willie

The not currently s/v Dhyana
Arnold, MD
 
#7 ·
I would continue with the repair. There is actually access on both sides of the pin. One on the port under the seat in the storage compartment and one on the starboard behind a small access panel. The panel gives you access through the inner liner to the actual centerboard trunk. There should be stainless steel plates (2"x2") and orange gaskets covering the pin held on with 4 pan head screws. I've heard reports that these were glassed over sometimes by previous owners. So if you can't see them, look for the bumps where they should be.
I never had my centerboard or pin out. The previous owner did that work and used Interlux 2000 after sandblasting. So far it has held up nicely. Done in the late 90's. I know of one owner that had his sandblasted and hot dipped galvanized. I did think through the process of removing the 300 pound beast if I had to. I would make a cradle out of two 2x12 pieces of lumber separated by a wood spacer along the bottom edge a little thicker than the centerboard. I would fasten this to a floor jack and slowly lower it out of the trunk and roll it to where I needed. The cradle would be more valuable to install the centerboard because lining up the holes for the pin would be a bear of a job without it and a roller jack. If your on gravel, put plywood down so you can roll the jack. Also look for spacers that I heard could be on both sides of the centerboard to help stop any slapping. I couldn't see these spacers on mine.
I don't know how long your repaired centerboard would last. It's pretty eaten up. I would keep looking around steel salvage yards for 3/4" plate steel until you find a good buy. then find a metal shop with a plasma cutting machine to cut it out for you. You could grind down the beveled edges or have it done. But I think you could have it done for far less than $2,500 by looking around. I would also keep an ear open for any Helms 25 boats heading for the dumpster. I often thought how much it would cost to have one made or cast out of silicon bronze. Would last longer than the boat but probably cost twice what the boat is worth.
I have a detailed drawing of the centerboard dimensions if you need it. Got it from another owner. But sound like you might have it already.
Good luck
 
#11 ·
I can tell you original spec for the Helms 25 centerboard was 300 #, info straight from Jack Helms some years ago. As it happens, I have a Helms 25 for sale - (should be in the classifieds today.) Last time I looked, centerboard was in pretty good shape.
CapnJack
S/Y Firebrand
1973 #200
 
#13 · (Edited)
Well, I finally finished my centerboard restoration. Got the boat back in the water, and took my first sail on it in the last two months.

This is what I started with.



This is the board after being ground, Oshpho'd, and sealed with a Por15. I am just starting to epoxy it here.


Here it is after epoxy before being wrapped with eglass and more epoxy.



Here is the finished product with ablative paint on it.



 
#14 ·
Very nice job! How did it sail? Did you happen to weight it before you installed it? Wondering how close to the original 300# it ended up.
Was the pin stainless in those early years or bronze or something else?
Did the pin ride in the fiberglass of the trunk or were there some type of bushings for the pin? What was the diameter of the pin? Was it hard to get it out?
Sorry for all the questions, but I never had to remove mine yet.
 
#15 ·
Hey Wayne!

I didn't weight it. I estimate that the metal was probably about 250lbs or so from the original 300. The epoxy and eglass weighed next to nothing so while it gave it structure, it couldn't have affected the weight much.

The pin is stainless and it is directly in the trunk as far as I remember. It was a bit of a mess around it as there was a ton of sealant of some sort under the two panels that cover the pin. I cut away enough to push the pin through. I am not sure what the diameter was. Maybe 3/4 inch? It wasn't too hard to get out. I just took a small metal dowel and hammered it through from port to starboard.

So one thing I learned in this process is that I should have squared the rear edge of the centerboard instead of trying to taper it. It vibrates at about 4.3 knots and the boat now sings a different song depending upon the speed and the angle of the board.
 
#17 ·
Hi! I made a frame of roughly the shape that it used to have without all the indentations and poured epoxy to fill the gaps left by cleaning out the rust. Then I just put a single layer of fiberglass tape wetted with epoxy wrapping the board from top to bottom and overlapping on the front and back edges. I would have liked to build it up more but there wasn't a lot of lateral clearance in the hole that it needs to swing in (I'm sure there is a proper nautical term for the hole that the swing keels moves in, but it eludes me.)

Hope that helps,
--Willie
 
#18 ·
Making a lot of progress, going to epoxy and fiberglass a bit tomorrow most likely (weather dependent). The only thing I'm slightly concerned about is how much the pin hole has warn away from rubbing. Inside the boat its great, but its over an inch big in the keel. My guess is that with properly treated iron this will wear much more slowly, and I'm not sure what I could really do about it anyway without welding and drilling (not in my budget)

I'm thinking about trying to weigh it when I"m done. With a fulcram, a bathroom scale and some math I think I could get fairly accurate. Unfortunately, I don't think this one was ever repainted or really taken care of properly. I'm excited to have a job done I know can last a few decades.
 

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#19 ·
Has anyone ever considered adding lead sheets and epoxying and fiberglassing over them? This seems like it would be fairly strong and you could probably add ~15-20 lbs without sacrificing much thickness. I dont plan on doing that, but I'm curious about the possibility. I imagine you'd have to be careful with the lead.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Basically finished. I could have faired it a bit more, but i got impatient. The thing was in horrible shape, and as it was, I already did two coats of epoxy. I also was limited to good weather since I don't have a garage to tote the thing too. Either way I'm happy with how infinitely better it seems to look, and how much longer it should last. Thought I'd throw one or two finished photos on...



And then after raising and lowering (where it grabbed a little rust from the inside on top of the paint)



What can I say about lining up the pin other than to say it was a hassle. I drew on the paint with a pen to give myself arrows to line it up, but its heavy either way, and hard to line up where you can't see.

My question to anybody is this: Has anyone else had trouble with the winch side getting stuck up in the body of the boat? If I jack the keel all the way in, it is very hard to lower again. I have a bunch of ideas to try tomorrow, but its definitely on the keel stuck in the body, not the wire stuck on the winch. You can pull the wire out sideways, but the keel will not go down. After about 3-4 inches it behaves beautifully. Its driving me crazy, and was doing this right before I dropped it too.
 
#21 ·
I went ahead and cut the winch cable, and took it to the local rigging shop to have replaced. Hopefully it will help with the sticking. I also bought some very liquidy graphite solution, and a silicone spray.

Regarding it being stuck, before cutting the line I disconnected it from the keel and did two things:
1) winched the cable up without the board
2) Lifted the board with a jack (without the cable)

This quickly told me that the cable was jamming, not the board, when its completely raised. Some poor photographs of it raised below show that it is related to reaching the end of the wire, and getting to the thicker swaged connection, or the tangs below. You can see the swaged connection hitting the wheel below...





So my only hope is that a new cable and trying to lubricate the wheel help, otherwise I guess I'll just keep a tube available to hammer it down. :confused: At least until next year...
 
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