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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2007
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I've read the old jumper cables will be better than nothing. But, because they require a right angle turn in the conductor path, and they are not a very good (not low resistance, not wide surface area, just "knife edge" contacts on the jumper clips) contact, they're not a replacement for a proper direct ground path.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2007
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If you go back and read between the lines of each post and think about what you already know, there's only one conclusion.
Lightening strikes when it wants to and where it wants no matter what you do.
It will usually follow a conductor, but know matter how big, it will fry it. There IS no containing a million plus volts.

Maintain good insurance and peace with your god.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2007
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2007
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Ok - this is from memory, and I don't have any sources I can quote.

Blowing wind can place a charge on your antennas and then actually attract the lightning. One point of grounding is to take that charge back to zero. I believe the brush is designed to dissipate some of the charge from the air immediately around your boat. So, I'd agree the brush doesn't have to be at the highest point.
A highly charged boat will be worse than a tall masted boat, which may explain the issue with the frequency of powerboats being hit.
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Old 06-04-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pluscard
Ok - this is from memory, and I don't have any sources I can quote.

Blowing wind can place a charge on your antennas and then actually attract the lightning. One point of grounding is to take that charge back to zero. I believe the brush is designed to dissipate some of the charge from the air immediately around your boat. So, I'd agree the brush doesn't have to be at the highest point.
A highly charged boat will be worse than a tall masted boat, which may explain the issue with the frequency of powerboats being hit.
While this may be true if you had a mast made of non-conductive materials, I doubt it is the case with an aluminum mast and stainless steel shrouds and stays. While airplanes and helicopters can generate a serious static charge, the velocity of the air involved is much higher than what any sailboat will ever safely experience. Also, airplanes and helicopters are surrounded by a fairly good insulator—air, where boats are surrounded by a fairly good conductor—salt water.

Have you ever tried to generate a static charge on a piece of metal... doesn't really work all that well, since the electrons are free to move about relatively speaking. A common way to generate static electricity is to rub wool or silk over plastic... Try generating a static charge on a large piece of plastic ... and you'll get a pretty good one built up...
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2007
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Honestly Rick, I dissagree (nicely).

It just does not make sense to me otherwise. Now I have only had about 2 years of physics in college, so I am not the expert in any of this... far from it. But I cannot see how having it at a level lower than another close conductive source in the same proximity will benefit it. In fact, I think it will be a detriment.

Since the bottle brush basic method of operation is to dissipate the charge which will accumulate on the easiest path to ground (ie, typically the highest point), having it below the easiest path to ground would not benefit it. Though on a large strike it may still have some benefit as the entire top of the mast will be gettting charged, it would be better suited by placing it higher than any corresponding conducturs/charge accumulators. I can see, as they wrote up in their web site, that you could place it too high... ie, ten feet or higher where there is a conductive loss between the easiest point to ground and the dissipator - which would decrease the dissipators effectiveness. However, on a sailboat where everything is in very close proximity, that does not make sense.

As far as the 6 inches, I meant for a lightning rod. My typo and mistake. It would not hurt for a bottlebrush too, but that was in the instructions I had for my lightning rod.

In general, using a faraday cage, I would see the top of the VHF antenae as the top of your cone. Given the buildup of the charge on top of your mast and the fact that the dissipator is lower, I would see the top of your VHF antenae as the top of your cage and the point where the strike would occur. If I were you, I would lower the antennae and add a lightning rod instead. THere seems to be some debate whether it shoud be very sharp or blunt... who knows?? But that is what I would do. I looked at the Forspar and other sites and they also reccomend the disspator being the highest point. Sailnet also sails it and says the same thing. Lightning Master is the only site that says it does not HAVE to be at the top - but there statement is based upon observation and not scientific, proven experiments. I also think (THINK) that they are being a little sarcastic when they say it may have a detrimental effect, "... when mounted too high..." as in a height well above what would be practical in a marine application... especially a sailboat.

The whole science behind disspiating a charge is pretty debated. I think a disspator of one type or another is a benefit, but I think the prudent sailor should be even more concerned with finding a clear and direct path to ground where the boat and its occupants would not be injured. A dissipator, in theory, only lowers the chance of a strike. It does not remove it.

Just my opinions, Rick.

- CD
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickBowman
Can this be a partial explanation as to why mobile homes are tornado magnets?
No that's a sub-prime effect.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2007
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Mobile homes, being such cheap flimsy construction, often erected on bare lots with no shelter around them, don't need to be "magnets" to make spectacular targets.

I've seen old (40-50 year old) mobile home parks in areas hit by Wilma, with mature heavy-rooted trees reaching up 30-50 feet sheltering the homes, and they took less damage than the exposed small homes (what I'd call bungalows) around them.

Building homes--or boats--"to code" helps make sure they can weather the environment with less damage. Won't do squat if the environment sits up one day and says "I'll take that one!"
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2007
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Ok, this is OT, creepy and sad...

But my dog just got hit by lightning, after I posted on this thread early this morning. He was on a dog tieout in his dog house. The tieout was between two large oak trees - I think it must have hit one of the trees, then traveled down the tieout to his metal collar.

His name was Grunt, and he was a large dog.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2007
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First we must understand how lightning works..so from my blog here I will post this:
Lightning is a series of several strokes the first being a stepped leader stroke which develops a path from the cloud to the ground sometimes the channels lead nowhere which explains why lightning forks ,eventually a path is developed from the cloud to the ground and lightning happens..
Once the stepped leader stroke develops a conducting channel to the ground or you get the "Return Streamer" which is a discharge of electricity from the ground to the cloud. This stroke is more brilliant than the leader stroke and is the observed stroke we see..an average of three leader strokes and three return stokes occur in one conducting channel..

So now we have a boat floating in the worlds best GROUND, water)

Now as I see it the brush is designed to disrupt the strokes within the conducting channel...does it work ??it could because even wind can disrupt the channels and change the path.....
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