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  #341  
Old 08-05-2014
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Re: Is Sailing Sexist?

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Originally Posted by captain jack View Post
i don't usually have to use days off for household chores because i do them after work. i mow as soon as i get home from work, before dinner. dishes get done immediately. i do my laundry at night (sometimes in the wee hours when most sane humans are asleep) and sweep and stuff while the laundry is in.

that way i have my days off for the boat, unless something comes up. i prioritize. sleep is less important than sailing so it gets cut, if need be.
Sailing before sleep! Someone who has their priorities in order.
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  #342  
Old 08-06-2014
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Re: Is Sailing Sexist?

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Originally Posted by captain jack View Post
ok. an official definition of sexism. good. now, explain where you have seen it in this thread.

"prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, against women, on the basis of sex."

iif you don't mind, could you note the ones that fit that definition; so they can be discussed.
You don't have to go beyond the book title in the original question. "first mate"=woman. Dated, stereotypical.

Sexism isn't an option in any part of our culture. Google sexism in the USA or similar. It's just there.

You could be the least sexist male in the world, and sexism is still here.

In the sailing world, I think we've done a better job toward eliminating sexism than say, the work place in the US(we're not equal in $/work but we're improving) or many third world countries where sexism atrocities, are rule.

I'm sexist but I've become less so as I age. I'm also a white male in the US and have not been a victim of sexism.

No, there was one time. A girl I dated(once) told me in all seriousness, "All men are a**holes..."

Silly, but a lot of sexism is just silly, and dumb.
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  #343  
Old 08-06-2014
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Re: Is Sailing Sexist?

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Originally Posted by TomMaine View Post
This interesting thread answered the original posters question on the first page, and continues to supply the same answer;

The question was not; "Are you sexist?"

The question was; "Is sailing sexist?"

Answer, "Affirmative"
Well, I think it's impossible for sailing to be sexist. "Sailing" is not a person capable of bias or prejudice.

But of course there are people who sail who are sexist. One definition of sexism is "attitudes or behavior based on traditional stereotypes of sexual roles."

Now, walk into any number of yacht clubs around the country and tell me that sexism is not alive and well. How many female "Commodores" do you see. How many men are coordinating the social gatherings?

Today, thankfully, there is a whole new generation of sailing couples that want nothing to do with the old timey yacht club make-me-want-to-puke scene. We just like to sail. Leave all that other $hit at the dock.
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  #344  
Old 08-06-2014
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Re: Is Sailing Sexist?

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Originally Posted by caberg View Post
Well, I think it's impossible for sailing to be sexist. "Sailing" is not a person capable of bias or prejudice.

Today, thankfully, there is a whole new generation of sailing couples that want nothing to do with the old timey yacht club make-me-want-to-puke scene. We just like to sail. Leave all that other $hit at the dock.
I agree with that. But it's difficult to take sailors out of sailing.

And I couldn't agree more that a whole new generation(not always- age related), that wants' nothing to do with the 'good old boy' attitude in yacht clubs or just about anywhere in society.

These days, I know many more female sailors and sailboat owners than I did a couple decades ago.

And I know many couples that own a sailboat and sail together, or as families, where she brought them into sailing.

And in the sailing/marine industry, I know more females working as captains in all scale of boats. Racing, the gender gap is closing a bit too. It's a good time.

I have a daughter 23, and a son 22, both are fine sailors and will no doubt be involved in sailing for their entire lives. If they grow families, they too will be involved.

I don't see a lot of difference between the two of them-where it relates to sailing.
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  #345  
Old 08-16-2014
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Re: Is Sailing Sexist?

Those of you who say you don't "see" sexism? Here's something for you:

Next Time Someone Says Women Aren't Victims Of Harassment, Show Them This.
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  #346  
Old 08-16-2014
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Re: Is Sailing Sexist?

Of course there is sexism between the sexes. My lady demands it. She expects traditional roles for the sexes and for her doors to be opened for her and her guy to drive the car. I have attempted to shine some light into her world view, but with very limited success.
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  #347  
Old 08-16-2014
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Re: Is Sailing Sexist?

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Originally Posted by TomMaine View Post
You don't have to go beyond the book title in the original question. "first mate"=woman. Dated, stereotypical.

Sexism isn't an option in any part of our culture. Google sexism in the USA or similar. It's just there.

You could be the least sexist male in the world, and sexism is still here.

In the sailing world, I think we've done a better job toward eliminating sexism than say, the work place in the US(we're not equal in $/work
most statistics quoting male/female income inequality do not do anything but quote the averages without regard to the types of jobs. women tend to go into careers and train for careers that make less money. also, there is time missing for work, to have or tend to children, which figures into yearly incomes and that is also not factored in. women making tons less than men in the same jobs is largely a thing of the past ( a point my girlfriend has made, herself, a few times in discussions about this thread)

but you are right, things are changing. more men do blue collar work than women. blue collar jobs used to be the big money jobs. now, white collar is where the money is and blue collar is not. secretaries and women doing data entry in the office make more than the men working and sweating their butts off doing the physical production. not sure i see that as an improvement, though. at least, not if you ask the guys trying to raise families on bue collar wages.


Quote:
but we're improving) or many third world countries where sexism atrocities, are rule.

I'm sexist but I've become less so as I age. I'm also a white male in the US and have not been a victim of sexism.

No, there was one time. A girl I dated(once) told me in all seriousness, "All men are a**holes..."

Silly, but a lot of sexism is just silly, and dumb.

that's the point exactly. women are very sexist. i have been wolf whistled at, hit on, flirted with...all by women i did not approach. if i was a woman, i'd call that sexual harrassment. maybe you don't have that kind of experience with women. sorry about your bad luck.


anyhow, i'm a guy so i am flattered by the attention. which is a logical response, in my opinion. but, you bring up an even more common type of female sexism against men. degredation. in fact, it's so common, and accepted, you actually don't seem to realize how much you are exposed to it. it's in their stand up routines. it's in tv ads and sitcoms and movies. women do it, in person, very frequently. but no one calls them on it. i guess it's only sexist if men do it. women are exempt.
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  #348  
Old 08-16-2014
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Re: Is Sailing Sexist?

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Originally Posted by Multihullgirl View Post
Those of you who say you don't "see" sexism? Here's something for you:

Next Time Someone Says Women Aren't Victims Of Harassment, Show Them This.

in response, that is an editorial cartoon. it is an expression of opinion and not actualy proof of anything. i could just as easily draw a cartoon that says the exact opposite.

however, to address some of the points the cartoon brought up:

----abortion laws are not sexist in nature. they are a violation of people's religious freedoms and are based on christianity. rather than being sexist, they are just another example of how christians have been pushing their religion on everyone else for centuries.

----it truly is hypocritical for someone to dress in sexually provocative ways and expect to not be viewed in sexual ways. if you don't want me to look at your boobs( a very normal human reaction that has been a key element in making sure all sexual species reproduce), don't flash tnem at me. if i were to walk around with my equipment hanging out, i would be thought an idiot if i got offended at women looking at it. seriously. i guess all the male strippers should protest all the sexist women staring and wolf calling and shouting at them. just terribly sexist behavior.

---really? the cartoon makes it look as if women are just being groped 24/7 and having obscenities yelled at them from all sides constantly. you think that might be an exageration? i've had chicks squeeze my butt ( and even one run her hands 'accidentally' over my crotch) and i think every guy gets whistled at, flirted with, or had sexual comments made to them. i've dated some really hot chicks, over the years and they never complained of anything nearly like that cartoon depicts.

-----and, as far as how men speak of women amongst themselves:

A) as long as they aren't saying it to you, it's not your business what they say or think and

B) women do the same thing...often very vocally and openly. i can't tell you how many times i have heard women talking amongst themselves, in public, loudly and openly in a way that was treating men as sex objects. happens all the time. it happens at work. it happens at bars. i hear it after movies containing actors that women call 'studs'...a sexist term that views men in only a sexual manner. i can see it, now: "how terrilble. i can't stand it anymore. you only see me as big arms and a warshboard stomach. stop checking out my crotch ( i have had that happen a lot, too). my eyes are up here, lady!" no i can't. what guy would actuallty get upset that a woman checks him out or finds him sexy?

-----the reason a guy apologizes to another guy for hitting on his girlfriend or wife and not the woman has nothing to do with men viewing women as property. there is nothing wrong with men or women trying to get dates with people. that is natural and it's how relationships start and species continue. why would a guy apologize to a woman for that? however, if you realize you have been hitting on a woman that has a partner already, you apologize to him because you were trying to get involved with the person he is in a relationsip with. can you actually tell me that, if your woman friend were to realize she had been hitting on your boyfriend/husband, she would not apologize to you for the transgeression?

----as far as a guy being whipped; a guy who can't stand up and be himself, totally dominated by his girlfriend, is being submissive and weak. no one is saying a guy has to dominate. not at all. but, some guys just get bullied by their girlfriend/wife. they aren't man enough to be respected as a person by their partner. so, you say they sare whipped because they act weak and timid like a whipped dog. it's not sexist agsainst women at all. if anything, it's sexist against men because we expect strength, confidence, and courage from men and view them as less than a man if they act weak, timid, and cowardly.

---and, finally, i don't know about any of the other guys on here, but i claimed to be taken, once, to get a very unattractive woman to stop hounding me. i was definately not interested and she wouldn't take the hint and, rather than be mean and say 'i find you unattractive and sexually repulsive', it was just easier to say i had a girlfriend. that doesn't always work on women, though. a lot of my past girlfriends' friends have hit on my while i was with their friend. guys, though, usually respect other guys enough to back off. (in the pursuit of total honesty, i wil admit having stolen or 'borrowed' a number of other guy's girlfriends, in the past, but none that were attached to any of my friends. i never said i was a saint)

anyhow, that cartoon isn't so much evidence as it is propoganda in support of an opinion.

it's also shows just how meaningless the words 'sexism' and 'sexual harrassment' really have become. basically, if a guy you are not interested in compliments you or hits on (or even just asks you out) you it's sexual harrassment and he is sexist. but, if a guy you are interested in does those things, it's just fine. it really shows how one sided the whole thing is. it's ok for women to treat men as sex objects (in fact, it's empowering to women. they cheer each other for it) but it's wrong to do so. how can those words have any real meaning if you can apply them in any way that suits you or if they apply to only one gender? they can't.

and, am i saying there aren't guys who are offensive or guys that have a lesser opiniojn of women? no. i'm not. there are buttholes in every crowd. however, there are a lot of women who act and think in the same ways as those guys. in fact, it's more common and totally socially accepted for women to do those things.
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Last edited by captain jack; 08-16-2014 at 09:16 PM.
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  #349  
Old 08-17-2014
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Re: Is Sailing Sexist?

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Originally Posted by Multihullgirl View Post
Those of you who say you don't "see" sexism? Here's something for you:

[/url]
I enjoyed this one; At a renovation project in a Manhattan high rise, the well to do client asked the project manager," Can we get pizza delivered on friday's, for all the guys?" A generous offer for the more than 30 on site construction people.

Then the client notices the project managers assistant is a young female. "Oh, girls don't like pizza!", he says with a smile. Thinking quickly, he adds, "Can we have shoes delivered to the girls?"

My daughter and I(she is the project managers assistant) had quite a laugh(and lots of groans!), as she told me this last week. She likes the client and went last friday for the pizza(she loves pizza).

I'm sure the client doesn't see sexism around him.
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  #350  
Old 08-17-2014
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Re: Is Sailing Sexist?

I don't know any woman that don't like pizza. I know many that adore shoes beyond my comprehension. I don't insist on either.

What does this have to do with women sailors?

I have faith in humanity, as is I just finished a three week cruise and didn't come upon any female sailors that had a chip on their shoulder anything like that of this thread. Everyone was happy.
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