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  #61  
Old 10-28-2013
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re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
What I mean is that I'll likely do things like reef earlier, or throw out a drogue earlier,
We've been cruising our 1982 Hunter 36 for a year now. It was built during 1980-1982, designed by John Cherubini. Maybe one of the better, old school Hunters? Like smack's boat, much nicer lines (in my eyes) than the newer Hunter 41 Deck Salon's on either side of us right now. They are really nice below, though, despite their ugly appearance on the outside.

Our boat lived much of it's life on a freshwater lake before we bought it. Still has original standing rigging. I had it inspected before we left by a well known rigger. He said "I didn't find anything that would make me tell you not to go." So far, so good. Maybe because it hasn't been in salt water for 31 years?

Before we left, we hauled out and did a lot of work, besides a bottom job. Replace all the thru-hulls, a new rudder from Foss Foam, new prop, stuffing box, cutlass bearing, and I can't remember what else. Bottom line, we wanted to make sure we were good to go below the waterline. That and the standing rigging, I felt we were good.

Hunter did do some stupid stuff, at least in the old days. Our boat had a gate valve on the sink drain (well below the waterline). Not good, and not sure what they were thinking?

Anyway, we've cruised from Texas, to the Keys, to Georgetown Exumas Bahamas, to Brunswick, Georgia. I must say that we have seen many Hunters in our travels. Probably just as many Island Packets. I look at one of those when we are anchored close, and realize that our old Hunter got us to the same place, despite our minimal investment.

smack- you really going to have a drogue on your boat? I just went out with a friend here, on his Hallberg-Rassy yesterday. Nice boat! He and his brother got into some crappy weather. They dropped the sails, went below, and closed up the boat, and waited it out. I think our old Hunter could survive under those conditions (wouldn't sink). But, yeah. I'd rather have his boat, rather than our $20K 31 year old Hunter, but here we are starting our second year of full time cruising. Bahamas bound (again) in a week or two.

Ralph
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Last edited by RTB; 10-28-2013 at 04:22 PM.
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  #62  
Old 10-28-2013
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re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

For crying out loud!
The title of this thread is really bothering me. It is all wrong!
It should be: "Why ARE there so many Hunter haters" not "Why IS there (only 1) Hunter haters".
Your grammar sir is atrocious!
I know they don't let you correct the Thread title once posted so I'll see if I can get one of the grammar sensitive mods to correct it for you.
With that out of the way I will only say that I have no dog in this fight and I have nothing against Hunter sailboats. There are many, many happy Hunter owners who laugh at discussions like this. I don't own a Hunter but I laugh too.
There are probably more "MacGregor 26X-M" haters out there but there are also probably more happy MacGregor 26 owners out there than not. There is a reason MacGregor sold more boats than any of their competition.
Hunter is selling to a niche and price point too, as is Catalina, Beneteau, Bavaria, Tartan, Swann etc. I'm sure they have all had their share of problems.
The fewer boats you sell the better quality control can be achieved, if perfection was a goal. Sadly, I think the almighty dollar is the goal in every case though.
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  #63  
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re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalebD View Post
For crying out loud!
The title of this thread is really bothering me. It is all wrong!
It should be: "Why ARE there so many Hunter haters" not "Why IS there (only 1) Hunter haters".
Your grammar sir is atrocious!
No worries, CalebD!

The last post for the OP was 07-07-2010. These Hunter threads go on and on............

Why not just lock threads more than one year old, with no activity?

Ralph
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Last edited by RTB; 10-28-2013 at 10:18 PM.
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  #64  
Old 10-29-2013
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re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

Nostalgia!!
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  #65  
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re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I guess in a nutshell, here's my take on these kinds of stories/incidents...

UNLESS IT'S A COMMON OCCURRENCE FOR A PARTICULAR BRAND, if a boat falls apart to this degree, I'm going to put most of the blame on the skipper and/or hardcore conditions. Catastrophic structural failures like this don't just happen.

For example, simply running aground is not going to destroy any of the brand-name boats like laid out above. Now, running aground in a rough seaway and pounding the keel for hours will definitely do the trick.

Also, sailing in 25-knots and 6' swells is not going to destroy any of the brand-name boats like laid out above. However, heavily pounding into short-period waves for hours on end will likely do the trick as well.

The point being, there is absolutely no evidence that Hunters (or any other brands) have a tendency to simply fall apart in rough conditions (which is the common refrain in these discussions). But you CAN tear ANY boat apart if you beat it hard enough. Just look at all the "bluewater" boats available on YachtWorld in the Jersey area for "pennies on the dollar".

All that said, I will take it a bit more easy with my Hunter than I would with an Oyster or Amel. I understand the trade-offs...despite the fact that there are many Hunters that have done circs and the like. Oh, and I can afford the Hunter.
Smack,

That's pretty much the point. Hunters are well known for grid separation, so much so that it has made it onto the survey cheat sheet for the brand from this era. I have never see this type of problem from any other builder, yet I have seen it on three different Hunters.

Frankly I have no issue with Hunters, and tried to buy one when we got the Beneteau, but we couldn't make a deal on it, so wound up with our second choice boat. But that isn't to say that there were/are not some historical justification for why Hunter got a bad reputation. I think they have solved the problem, though getting rid of the reputation will take a while yet.

What's almost sad is that Hunter had the problem because they pretty much developed the idea of drop in grids. It's a great way to save money on a build, but it took a while to get right. Now the same technique is being used by a lot of manufacturers who took the Hunter technique after the growing pains were worked out.
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  #66  
Old 10-29-2013
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re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
What's almost sad is that Hunter had the problem because they pretty much developed the idea of drop in grids. It's a great way to save money on a build, but it took a while to get right. Now the same technique is being used by a lot of manufacturers who took the Hunter technique after the growing pains were worked out.
That makes sense. I've actually seen a fair amount of that...features that people don't like about Hunters (e.g. - the arch) making it to other brands in relatively short order.

I'll keep an eye on our grid.
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  #67  
Old 10-29-2013
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re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

So it now sounds like we are saying don't buy a boat with a new idea until the idea has been around a while and proven itself (arches, grids, etc)

So for a used boat it just comes down to the condition the boat is in, period!

BTW - the first I have ever heard of a grid failure is in this thread, doesn't sound very well know to me!
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  #68  
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Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

I'm kind of interested in the "survey cheat sheet". What is this document and what organization maintains it? Is it NAMS?

That would be an enlightening document for most consumers.
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  #69  
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Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

The first two generations of Hunters were no worse than most other production production boats of the same era and better than some. The current generation of Hunters are a bit better built than the European competition and their systems installations are far better in that as someone already said, they are about 99% ABYC compliant.

I think the bashing comes from sailing snobbery, you know ... the racers make fun of them cause' they don't win much on Tuesday nights and the blue water sailors who have never left sight of shore, ridicule them.

In the latest generation I have seen major structural issues in Beneteau's, Jeanneau's, Lagoon's, Hanse's and Dufour's. I've never seen a major structural issue with a Hunter although they still struggle to produce a void free deck laminate for some reason. But then again all other production builders have their own flaws.
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Old 10-29-2013
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Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don0190 View Post
....
BTW - the first I have ever heard of a grid failure is in this thread, doesn't sound very well know to me!
In a quick search I found several problems and reports regarding that problem and some more. Also about rudder failure in boats of a certain vintage but that is already well known.

"One-piece grids are being used to virtually eliminate the traditional framing system, replacing it with a liner system that is literally glued into the hull. Glued, you say? Well, they call it bonding putty but an adhesive by any other name is still a glue.

Those of you experienced with Hunter sail boats will know what I mean. They were one of the first to use full interior grids, albeit not necessarily a liner, and much of their product line suffered massive bonding failures, including their large 60 footer.one of the largest boats built with a full grid/liner was a Hunter 60 that experienced total liner disbonding and failure. Yet even their smaller models were widely known for liner failures....."


Marine Surveys : Surveying Boats with Molded Integral Grid Systems

Marine Surveying : Hull Design Defects - Hull Failure Part II - Boats and Yachts Surveys

First impressions are often lasting ones, especially when they are negative impressions like my first experience with Hunter in the early 1980's. Back then I had been hired by an unfortunate Hunter owner who had a forty footer with a grid liner that all came apart, causing some serious structural problems. At the time, Hunter had just converted to the use of grid liners (one of, if not the first to do so) and were far from perfecting the method, once again proving my point that far too many boat builders perform their experimentation in their product line, at the expense of their customers.

Boat Review* by David Pascoe - Hunter 28

Last winter my boat mysteriously developed severe cracks in its hull. Some of the cracks are 1/4 inch thick and 10 feet long. The hull now has no structural integrity and is completely useless to me. It seems their Advanced Composite Process hulls can't withstand extreme temperature changes. Even their owners manual tells you not to cover the boat with a dark boat cover - I guess they know the heat from the sun might crack their hulls.

I've done some investigating and found that the product they use (BASF Luran S) has a coefficient of thermal expansion that is far inferior to other common boat building materials. Morover, it appears that this website has had dozens of Hunter owners who have experienced the same problem.

Ripoff Report | Luhrs Marine Group Complaint Review Millville, New Jersey: 488292

http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners....=Grid%20liners

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
The first two generations of Hunters were no worse than most other production production boats of the same era and better than some. The current generation of Hunters are a bit better built than the European competition and their systems installations are far better in that as someone already said, they are about 99% ABYC compliant.
.....
In the latest generation I have seen major structural issues in Beneteau's, Jeanneau's, Lagoon's, Hanse's and Dufour's. I've never seen a major structural issue with a Hunter although they still struggle to produce a void free deck laminate for some reason. But then again all other production builders have their own flaws.
You mean huge structural problems like those on the Hunters?

Maybe you can specify of what you are talking about?

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 10-29-2013 at 07:12 PM.
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