Why are there so many Hunter haters? - Page 8 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Boat Builders Row > Hunter
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree29Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #71  
Old 10-29-2013
just ducky
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NH
Posts: 757
Thanks: 4
Thanked 17 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 7
Don0190 is on a distinguished road
Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post



You mean huge structural problems like those on the Hunters?

Maybe you can specify of what you are talking about?

Regards

Paulo
I think that based on your internetresearch "proving" grid systems boats are falling apart and you blanket statement above that there isn't any point in replying to you. It is apparent that no matter what you are not interested in the real facts of all the boats out there with no problem.

How about you provide real numbers for your statement of "huge structural problems like those on the Hunters" in something other than someones opinion that isn't based on 1 boat. Or are you just looking to be part of the bashing crowd?
__________________
Don't blow air up my rear, be useful and blow it at the sails!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #72  
Old 10-29-2013
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don0190 View Post
I think that based on your internetresearch "proving" grid systems boats are falling apart and you blanket statement above that there isn't any point in replying to you. It is apparent that no matter what you are not interested in the real facts of all the boats out there with no problem.

How about you provide real numbers for your statement of "huge structural problems like those on the Hunters" in something other than someones opinion that isn't based on 1 boat. Or are you just looking to be part of the bashing crowd?
One boat? You have to read better. Read also what they say on the Hunter Forum. They seem to know well the problem. It is not one boat it is a problem with the boats produced at a certain time, like the problem with the rudders. It is not someone opinion, it's a surveyor's opinion.

I am not bashing, you have said : "the first I have ever heard of a grid failure is in this thread, doesn't sound very well know to me!"

Well, now it is not the first time. From the Hunter forum an answer to a guy that had huge stress cracks on the hull (they posted photos that you can see there):

"The Hunters of your era rely on the grid structure to absorb the stress. Check all your tabbing to ensure the grid is still bonded to the skin of the hull. If your grid has fiberglass pans between them, sound the pans with a hammer. If it sounds hollow, then the pans have let go of the hull skin. They will need to be cut out and the grid bonded directly to the skin with tabbing. It could be the grid is transfering the stress out to the skin and causing flexing. Good thing you found it now rather than half way across the Gulf Stream in deteriorating weather!

For repairing the skin, I suggest grinding a much larger area before layering new glass and resin but if the grid structure isn't sound you are just wasting time and materials."


I said already on this thread already that it seems to me that the quality of Hunters improved since that time and that today the build quality is comparable to the one of similar priced European boats.

Regards

Paulo
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #73  
Old 10-29-2013
just ducky
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NH
Posts: 757
Thanks: 4
Thanked 17 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 7
Don0190 is on a distinguished road
Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

This is still the only thread I've heard of some "huge" problem and in fact the only one in which I've heard of anything other than "possible" problems. Quoting a certain surveyor who never has anything good to say isn't worth much.

this is after research prior to buying a grid boat and years of being active on 3 forums including the Hunter forum

BUT it doesn't matter, all that matters is the boat someone may look at. All I can say from first hand experience instead of internet "talk" is that my 12 year old Hunter has no grid problems, no bulkhead problems, no hull problems, no deck problems, no keel problems, no rudder problems. It hasn't had any electrical or plumbing problems for the parts build by Hunter. It has had problems with name brand parts that Hunter used because hey a 12 year boat has component failures.

I expect all this to be meaningless because we all know that all things on the internet are true as long as they are not first person info.
__________________
Don't blow air up my rear, be useful and blow it at the sails!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #74  
Old 10-29-2013
CalebD's Avatar
Tartan 27' owner
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,548
Thanks: 4
Thanked 87 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 7
CalebD will become famous soon enough
Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

BTW, thanks to which ever Mod smartened up the title to this thread.
As you were...
Faster likes this.
__________________
"The cure for anything is salt water~ sweat, tears, or the sea." ~Isak Denesen

Everybody has one:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #75  
Old 10-29-2013
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don0190 View Post
This is still the only thread I've heard of some "huge" problem and in fact the only one in which I've heard of anything other than "possible" problems. ...

this is after research prior to buying a grid boat and years of being active on 3 forums including the Hunter forum

.....
I expect all this to be meaningless because we all know that all things on the internet are true as long as they are not first person info.
Well, here you have a real problem.


"I actually talked to the owner of the boat while shooting the video. Seems they were broad reaching in about 12-15kts of breeze when the rudder fell off."

Regards

Paulo
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by PCP; 10-29-2013 at 09:54 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #76  
Old 10-29-2013
smackdaddy's Avatar
Last Man Standing
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 13,133
Thanks: 84
Thanked 78 Times in 72 Posts
Rep Power: 9
smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough
Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

I've seen some of these before. But, again, it's very vague as to how widespread the problem is. For example...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
"One-piece grids are being used to virtually eliminate the traditional framing system, replacing it with a liner system that is literally glued into the hull. Glued, you say? Well, they call it bonding putty but an adhesive by any other name is still a glue.

Those of you experienced with Hunter sail boats will know what I mean. They were one of the first to use full interior grids, albeit not necessarily a liner, and much of their product line suffered massive bonding failures, including their large 60 footer.one of the largest boats built with a full grid/liner was a Hunter 60 that experienced total liner disbonding and failure. Yet even their smaller models were widely known for liner failures....."


Marine Surveys : Surveying Boats with Molded Integral Grid Systems

Marine Surveying : Hull Design Defects - Hull Failure Part II - Boats and Yachts Surveys

First impressions are often lasting ones, especially when they are negative impressions like my first experience with Hunter in the early 1980's. Back then I had been hired by an unfortunate Hunter owner who had a forty footer with a grid liner that all came apart, causing some serious structural problems. At the time, Hunter had just converted to the use of grid liners (one of, if not the first to do so) and were far from perfecting the method, once again proving my point that far too many boat builders perform their experimentation in their product line, at the expense of their customers.
This seems to be focused on the early '80's boats. And in that regard, I assume we are talking the initial shift from the vaunted Cherubini design/builds, to the Legend design/builds?

However, let's look at the general mindset of Pascoe:

Quote:
Now, I don't know about you but I've never seen anything that was glued together being as strong as a component that's all of one piece. That's despite all the loud and fancy the advertising about adhesives.
Really?

And what about this "Hunter 60"? Is he talking about Hunter's Child or Thursday's Child...the 60'ers that Luhrs raced (and set many records with - e.g. - OSTAR)? It's a freakin' racing yacht.

Quote:
Thursday’s Child, an Open 60-foot ultralight singlehanded ocean racer, was designed by Paul Linderburg and built in 1983. In 1984, Luhrs set the boat’s first record in the Observer Single-handed Transatlantic Race (OSTAR) from Plymouth, England to Newport, Rhode Island in 16 days and 22 hours.

In 1988 and 1989, Luhrs sailed Thursday’s Child from New York around Cape Horn and into San Francisco Bay. It took him 80 days and 20 hours, creating a new record for the first time in 135 years.

A revised 60-foot boat called Hunter’s Child was built in the early 90s and raced in the 1994-1995 BOC race. Skipper Steve Pettengill and Hunter’s Child came in second place after completing the race in 128 days.


Look at the hull/structural failures of the most recent VOR boats and tell me how that relates to a cruising boat.

Apart from these examples, I'm not seeing a line of 60' cruising yachts in the Hunter family. Granted, I know about the hull flex issue with the 54's that required the structural add-on, but this ain't those.

So sorry. I'm not putting much faith in this Pascoe dude - "surveyor" or not.

Keep in mind his perspective is obviously a bit skewed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
First impressions are often lasting ones, especially when they are negative impressions like my first experience with Hunter in the early 1980's. Back then I had been hired by an unfortunate Hunter owner who had a forty footer with a grid liner that all came apart, causing some serious structural problems....

Boat Review* by David Pascoe - Hunter 28
We're still on a single 40'er that had grid issues. And this is a "widespread problem"? Sorry Pascoe. No dice.

Then finally...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Last winter my boat mysteriously developed severe cracks in its hull. Some of the cracks are 1/4 inch thick and 10 feet long. The hull now has no structural integrity and is completely useless to me. It seems their Advanced Composite Process hulls can't withstand extreme temperature changes. Even their owners manual tells you not to cover the boat with a dark boat cover - I guess they know the heat from the sun might crack their hulls.

I've done some investigating and found that the product they use (BASF Luran S) has a coefficient of thermal expansion that is far inferior to other common boat building materials. Morover, it appears that this website has had dozens of Hunter owners who have experienced the same problem.

Ripoff Report | Luhrs Marine Group Complaint Review Millville, New Jersey: 488292

Sress Cracks - SailboatOwners.com
This is a 17' daysailor that was stored in sub-zero weather in freakin' Ottowa. It has absolutely nothing to do with a cruising sailboat and grid issues.

So - this is my point. If this is what's fanning the anti-Hunter hysteria, people are far more gullible than I'd hoped.

I'm not saying Hunters are problem-free (e.g. - the rudder issues, etc.). But there is DEFINITELY a ridiculous hysteria to it all that has absolutely no basis in reality.

Keep Googling Paulo. This stuff so far is seriously lame. And, stumble, if these are the incidents informing that surveyor's "cheat sheet" - NAMS needs to have a serious look at that doc. It's giving them all a very bad name.
boatpoker likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40

Last edited by smackdaddy; 10-29-2013 at 10:54 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #77  
Old 10-29-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Orleans Louisiana
Posts: 1,934
Thanks: 6
Thanked 43 Times in 41 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Stumble is on a distinguished road
Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

Don,

12 years ago would have been 2001, well after Hunter was on their way to fixing their reputation for poor quality.


Smack,

By cheat sheet I was referring to the surveys I know who have a database of known/previously encountered problems with specific designs. I don't know of any formally maintained list. Though it would be nice if there was. It would be a great resource for anyone buying boats.
smackdaddy likes this.
__________________
Greg Rubin
Attorney
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #78  
Old 10-30-2013
chall03's Avatar
No longer on Sailnet
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,513
Thanks: 14
Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 12
chall03 will become famous soon enough
Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I've seen some of these before. But, again, it's very vague as to how widespread the problem is........

......Keep Googling Paulo. This stuff so far is seriously lame. And, stumble, if these are the incidents informing that surveyor's "cheat sheet" - NAMS needs to have a serious look at that doc. It's giving them all a very bad name.
Smack. I have heard of this issue mentioned in regards to a Hunter here in Oz. No i won't find court documents for you, no I don't have a 12 page powerpoint presentation of pictures nor will I interview eye witnesses to prove it. I just don't care that much, I have no dog in this fight.

Nor as I read it does Paulo or Stumble. Paulo would have to wear the hat as the most informed, objective voice on boat design on Sailnet.

Having said all of that I wouldn't lose any sleep over it either.

Boat gossip is what it is. Take it or leave it. As ridiculous as Hunter bashing is equally ridiculous is Hunter owner paranoia. All makes/models have potential issues particularly 10-15 years down the track. Accept it.

Simon V identified some issues with my make of vessel when I purchased it and I'm glad he did, his boat gossip was right and saved me some hassle later.
__________________
* No longer on Sailnet. Reach me by PM.

'Life is either a daring adventure or nothing' - Helen Keller



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #79  
Old 10-30-2013
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I've seen some of these before. But, again, it's very vague as to how widespread the problem is. For example...
.....

This seems to be focused on the early '80's boats. And in that regard, I assume we are talking the initial shift from the vaunted Cherubini design/builds, to the Legend design/builds?
....
Keep Googling Paulo. This stuff so far is seriously lame. And, stumble, if these are the incidents informing that surveyor's "cheat sheet" - NAMS needs to have a serious look at that doc. It's giving them all a very bad name.
Smack, as usual I like your attitude. I am sorry if it looks if I am bashing Hunters but I was pissed with someone that had said that never had heard about none of those problems and was suggesting it was all an invention. I remember a poster here on sailnet saying that his 56? ft Hunter made a lot of noise in the Hull (the grid banging against the hull) and I remember having heard about multiple cases of rudder loss, some on the press, some from some credible members (Melrna).

Particularly I remember a Hunter case on the ARC with a recent 450 that lost the rudder without hitting anything. Not many Hunters doing the ARC.

All boats lost in the ARC. My mistake,, Hunter rudder 2002, not 3

December 10, 2002

There was till recent years several problems having to do mostly with the design of the boats. I have no knowledge of any problems with the Hunters that are made today or in the last years.

Even in what regard rudder if you have one of those models that are prone to problem all you have to do is dismount your rudder every year and see if everything is alright. Dismounting a modern rudder, clean it and verify it is a 300 euros job and can be made by two persons. Some never dismount their rudders and think they will last forever and that is plain dumb. All modern rudders should be dismounted regularly to be clean and verified.

Regards

Paulo
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by PCP; 10-30-2013 at 07:25 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #80  
Old 10-30-2013
just ducky
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NH
Posts: 757
Thanks: 4
Thanked 17 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 7
Don0190 is on a distinguished road
Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
Don,

12 years ago would have been 2001, well after Hunter was on their way to fixing their reputation for poor quality.
The thing is that the Hunter bashers online will never admit that it isn't a universal Hunter problem where all models and all years are bad boats.

My position isn't that all Hunters are good. My position is that not all hunter models are bad.

Hunter bashing is a sport!
__________________
Don't blow air up my rear, be useful and blow it at the sails!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Miss Liberty vs the landlubbing haters! captmetatron Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 82 08-01-2013 05:50 PM
Hunter 430? mgraham49 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 2 08-29-2011 07:45 AM
Fwd: [hunter] boat 1979 Hunter for Sale $9,900 located in Florida NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 08-25-2006 12:15 PM
Hunter 36 me262 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 5 05-08-2003 04:49 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:48 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.