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  #81  
Old 10-30-2013
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Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Smack, as usual I like your attitude. I am sorry if it looks if I am bashing Hunters but I was pissed with someone that had said that never had heard about none of those problems and was suggesting it was all an invention. I remember a poster here on sailnet saying that his 56? ft Hunter made a lot of noise in the Hull (the grid banging against the hull) and I remember having heard about multiple cases of rudder loss, some on the press, some from some credible members (Melrna).

Particularly I remember a Hunter case on the ARC with a recent 450 that lost the rudder without hitting anything. Not many Hunters doing the ARC.

All boats lost in the ARC. My mistake,, Hunter rudder 2002, not 3

December 10, 2002

There was till recent years several problems having to do mostly with the design of the boats. I have no knowledge of any problems with the Hunters that are made today or in the last years.

Even in what regard rudder if you have one of those models that are prone to problem all you have to do is dismount your rudder every year and see if everything is alright. Dismounting a modern rudder, clean it and verify it is a 300 euros job and can be made by two persons. Some never dismount their rudders and think they will last forever and that is plain dumb. All modern rudders should be dismounted regularly to be clean and verified.

Regards

Paulo
Thanks for taking my attitude as intended. I don't think you're bashing. You're just presenting a side of the story. So no worries. I'm just a very skeptical guy when it comes to stuff like this.

I have seen much more "substantial evidence" on the rudder failure issue (e.g. - Harker's 466, the 450 in the ARC, the 375, etc.). So, even though the reported sampling is still very, very small in relation to the number of these models sailing around out there without rudder failure - I still take it as a concern that should be watched.

The grid issue is obviously much, much more critical. Catastrophic structural failure is not an option...ever...therefore, this issue is far more worrying for most people considering a boat. So unless there is much more credible evidence that this is a "brand-wide" problem (not just a couple of questionable articles by this Pascoe dude) - then I stand by my assertion that the hysteria is seriously overblown.

Just as you aren't bashing, I'm not necessarily championing Hunter. Yes I own one - but I own it with the understanding it has limitations I need to bear in mind (though as mentioned above, its "limitations" are far beyond what I'll likely be able to handle myself). It's just that I think groupthink can be very stupid - as it seems to be in this case without more evidence to back it up.
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  #82  
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Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

Yeah... personally my beef with SOME Hunters is mainly style and aesthetics based.. I think for the most part, for coastal cruising they are well up to the task. All manufacturers, esp hi volume ones, are going to have the occasional faux pas. I know of a Catalina 320 where the resin never properly cured. The owner recognized the problem and had a fairly rapid, satisfactory resolution when Catalina replaced the boat.

I'm on record as saying I think the late 80s early 90s Legend series are attractive, well set up boats... Smack's 40 was the beginning, moving to the '5' series 35.5, 37.5, 40.5 etc.. they have nice lines, a 'normal' fractional rig, my only complaint here is lack of a deep draft option but I'd be sorely tempted to choose one of those over a C34 or C36 for the type of sailing we do and I really prefer fractional rigs. I'm (subjectively) not a fan of the next and subsequent generations' styling.. but that's just me. Doesn't make them 'bad' boats, just ones I'd not be interested in...
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  #83  
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Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
....

The grid issue is obviously much, much more critical. Catastrophic structural failure is not an option...ever...therefore, this issue is far more worrying for most people considering a boat. So unless there is much more credible evidence that this is a "brand-wide" problem (not just a couple of questionable articles by this Pascoe dude) - then I stand by my assertion that the hysteria is seriously overblown.
....
Yes I agree that surveyor is generalizing a bit and have a very critical stance about many things that are today an Industry standard, for example the use of grids and cored hulls. He does not talk about new boats but about the effects those "standards" can have on 20 or 30 year's old boats.

I think he has some good points even if I am bot interested in boats with 20 years much less 30 and therefore what he says is not very important to me.

However the fact that article is still online and the guy had not be sued by Hunter should have some relevance in what regards the truthfulness of the cases he reports.

Regarding grids as structural components (or part of it) they are used on the Industry for more than 20 years and the only cases I have heard regarding big problems hare the Hunter's ones. Not meaning that other cases with other brands don't exist, just saying that I never heard about them.

Regarding catastrophic failure only if the sailor is blind or deaf because some signs will clearly appear first (cracks and sound of the grid hammering the hull). They are clearly described on some posts on the Hunter's forum. It would be a difficult and expensive reparation but nothing that cannot be done before a catastrophic failure occurs.

I agree with you that the reported cases are not many for the number of boats. Probably on the boats that have that potential problem this only occurs when the boat is extensively used offshore in hard conditions. time will tell if these problems will also occur also on all boats with that problem when they get older . Time will tell

Regards

Paulo
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  #84  
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Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

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Originally Posted by Don0190 View Post
The thing is that the Hunter bashers online will never admit that it isn't a universal Hunter problem where all models and all years are bad boats.

My position isn't that all Hunters are good. My position is that not all hunter models are bad.

Hunter bashing is a sport!
Now I see this as something different. It is important for the issue to be out there. People looking to buy the boats then can make an informed decision, and can check for the grid decontamination before forking out the money for a survey. If they go ahead and purchase one, then they can keep an eye on it so it is discovered before it becomes dangerous. It is all about knowing limitations and understanding how to live with them.

There are some Hunters I would consider, others I would not. I don't see it as bashing, but more seeing the limitations. Just like the bashing Island Packets get, yes it is important that if someone in a predominantly low wind area understand that they are weak light wind performers, and understand there are some serious issues with there construction, like the glassed in chain plates. Valiants get bashed for being a blister factory. Cal boats have the galvanized cross beam in the bilge that supports the mast.They call them "Bendytoys." I don't think it is limited to bashing Hunters, no boats go un-bashed here to some extent or another as all boats have weakness design is inherently a compromise. No boat is the perfect boat and must meet budget constraints whether high or low. It just seems like there is more when it is your boat, or perhaps it just hurts more. Also there are a lot of Hunters out there so more people are looking at them.

OK, Catalina's are never bashed here, but every other brand is!
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Last edited by miatapaul; 10-30-2013 at 11:56 AM.
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  #85  
Old 11-26-2013
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Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

I personally don't like hunters but i don't hate them they just don't align with what i feel are the things I want in a boat. I have sailed two hunters extensively a hunter 39 and a hunter 290 and spent some time on a 380 which was in my opinion a very poorly constructed boat. I think that hunters have pretty decent interiors and for people who spend alot of time at the dock they offer a much more comfortable interior than many other boats however i really did not like the build quality on the 380 especially but all of the hunters i have sailed. In the 380 i sailed a piece of cabinetry became adrift during a squall. the hull flexed alot more than i was comfortable with and furthermore i found that certain things just didnt seem like they were as robust as i would have liked. I think that there decent boats for the conditions there designed for, because they are clearly not designed for offshore passages in bad weather, but they offer alot more luxuries for the same price as a much narrower smaller offshore cutter would and these days very few people want a slow heavily built bluewater boat because people dont have the desire to spend years circumnavigating via the great capes. I do take issue on the idea that older boats were less robustly constructed than modern hunters. My boat was made in the 1970s and it was not made of csm it was made of woven roving which was hand laid, however i understand not all boats were made like this, theres definitely improvements that have been made in yacht design but I would say my boat seems to me to be more robustly constructed than modern production boats in its size range, obviously the higher end boats in its size range are generally a little better built because they take advantage of vinylester resins carbon kevlar cloth etc. Light boats are not necessarily weak however, i found the laser 28 that i sailed on to be quite a strong boat and it was also very light.
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Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

that being said i really hate the b&r rig because it makes proper sail trim impossible downwind. Oh and i have never sailed a cherubini but i have heard there completely different than the hunters I have had experience with. all boats are compromises, and i can understand why someone would sail a hunter, even if it is not a boat i would consider.
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Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

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Originally Posted by duchess of montrose View Post
that being said i really hate the b&r rig because it makes proper sail trim impossible downwind. ...r.
and a bit difficult to trim upwind

Regards

Paulo
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Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

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Originally Posted by miatapaul View Post
OK, Catalina's are never bashed here, but every other brand is!
It's OK... CD's rarely around now so bash away!!
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Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

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Originally Posted by duchess of montrose View Post
I think that there decent boats for the conditions there designed for, because they are clearly not designed for offshore passages in bad weather...
Sorry dude, not true. Unless things have changed in the last few years, this is from the following 1999 CWBB interview conducted by our very own Jeff_H:

Quote:
CWBB It has been pointed out that Hunter has received the highest level of the EU's new seaworthiness ratings. This rating category indicates that the vessel is designed to withstand conditions of approximately 40 knot. winds and 12-foot seas. Hunter's ads, however seem to suggest that the rating implies that the boats are designed to take anything that they might encounter in open ocean cruising. Are Hunters designed for the kind of conditions they might encounter in some of the nastier areas of the world, such as the major Capes or a North Atlantic passage?

JB All current Hunter boats 34' and larger built for European delivery are certified by IMCI to be in compliance with the relevant parts of the Recreational Craft Directive 94/25/CE. The CE mark means that the craft meets or exceeds all current standards and directives of the International Organization for Standardization in effect at the time of construction. All Hunters 34' and larger comply with the CE A design category. Those built for US delivery would have to have a serial number change that is not accepted by the US Coast Guard documentation service and lack various safety placards, stove shielding, and VHF radio specs required by the IMCI. Otherwise the construction is identical. The specific language used by the IMCI is: "Category A Ocean: Craft designed for extended voyages where conditions experienced may exceed wind force 8 and include significant wave heights of 4m, for vessels that are largely self sufficient." The key you're missing is the word "exceed." Yes, we believe the boats capable of rounding the major capes and of North Atlantic passage; several have. All our boats delivered over the past 5-6 years to our Cape Town South Africa dealer have been on their own bottoms. The skill of the captain and crew, proper preparation, appropriate safety equipment are of course essential to safe sailing and are not included when the boat leaves our plant but can be added.
HunterOwners.com - Hunter Q&A

Anyone know if Hunter's stopped adhering to this standard?
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Re: Why are there so many Hunter haters?

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Sorry dude, not true. Unless things have changed in the last few years, this is from the following 1999 CWBB interview conducted by our very own Jeff_H:



HunterOwners.com - Hunter Q&A

Anyone know if Hunter's stopped adhering to this standard?
Not to the best of my knowledge. So far as I can tell modern Hunters are as well built as any modern large production hull. I give Hunter a lot of credit for turning their reputation around, and putting the money and effort into turning out high quality boats.
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