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  #11  
Old 08-25-2013
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Re: Salutations

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonBrain View Post
Jim,
Thank you for your service.
While I appreciate the sentiment, and not to drag this thread in a different direction, I was a civilian and could quit at any time. For me, it was "just" a job (though I enjoyed it, and that isn't REALLY an accurate characterization of how I felt about my work there). You and your brethren made a real commitment and are the ones who deserve our thanks.

As to your goals, you are in a better position than most of the "I need a bluewater liveaboard tomorrow" posters here to understand what this really entails. That being said, since you're still a novice to sailing, I would respectfully suggest that it may not be all that you think it is. I could be wrong, and you may very well understand what you're in for or at least be willing to tolerate the fact that it may very well deviate from what you're envisioning, and you don't care because you will have lived/realized the dream. In that case, I look forward to reading about your adventures! But for many, the purchase of a large boat represents a significant investment, and there are many boats out there whose owners had dreams and aspirations that were similar to yours, and then realized after jumping in with both feet that it isn't what they expected. The boats sit idle at a slip, or on the hard, deteriorating by the day as the owners try to sell the boat, their finances hanging on by a shoestring (if they are lucky). I've said it many times before here - my goal is to make sure you're going into this with your eyes open, and as informed as possible about what you're getting into. As long as that's the case, then I wish you well in your endeavor.

What is your plan for learning to sail? Will you take ASA courses, or buy a boat and learn on it?
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  #12  
Old 08-25-2013
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Re: Salutations

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonBrain View Post
DRFerron,
What are you saying that the Beneteau rep, is a sailsman?
Dealers want to move their boats. Most care more that you can buy it than if it's the right boat for you at the time.

My approach was to research every boat I considered to within an inch of its life. That's just the way I work. When I went to boat shows and boarded the boats I wasn't interested in a sales pitch. I wanted my questions answered. When I researched the C30 my questions were based on lurking on owners email lists and brochures and minimally how we used our 22. Now that we're moving up in size and to a much newer boat my questions are based more on how we use the 30 and how our needs changed and what didn't work for our needs on the 30. Also, participating in a Catalina sailing club with every boat from 27 to 47 involved, I hear at raftups and parties and whatnot what works and doesn't work for the owners. We ask questions. We could see boats that were lived in/sailed and not just with potted plants thrown on tables by dealers to make it look nice. Mostly what I learned was that the same things broke on newer, bigger boats but those things were more expensive to fix. Quite a few have taken their Catalinas to the same locations I hope to visit so I ask how the boat worked for them.

Some people firmly believe that you should just buy the biggest boat you can afford and don't putz around with learning on a dinghy or whatever. To me, my approach allows us to slow down, make sure that as few purchasing mistakes as possible are made and still enjoy sailing while relishing the "journey" to the larger boat. Hopefully our major sailing mistakes will have been learned on the less expensive boat and we'll know better for the next one. It's my version of "enjoy the journey not just the destination."
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  #13  
Old 08-25-2013
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Re: Salutations

Donna,
Yes, I agree that not actually being any part of a sailing community or boating community in the area is a drawback, and most of my research has on my own, lurking sites like this, watching videos as a matter of fact I've seen Ian's video on single handing the 57 foot Jeanneau. Very impressive. I hope to rectify the situation about getting closer to the boating community as I get into sailing classes and post on the various sites. There is a boat show coming up in January, and I am looking forward to that. Definitely talking to other boat owners would be helpful and asking the right questions of course. Bringing me to these questions:

1. What was the greatest surprise(good) you got when you purchased your boat?

2. What was the greatest shock you received when you bought your boat?

3. What are somethings you would have done differently during the research and purchase of your boat?
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  #14  
Old 08-25-2013
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Re: Salutations

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimgo View Post
While I appreciate the sentiment, and not to drag this thread in a different direction, I was a civilian and could quit at any time. For me, it was "just" a job (though I enjoyed it, and that isn't REALLY an accurate characterization of how I felt about my work there). You and your brethren made a real commitment and are the ones who deserve our thanks.
I am certainly sentimental

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimgo View Post
As to your goals, you are in a better position than most of the "I need a bluewater liveaboard tomorrow" posters here to understand what this really entails. That being said, since you're still a novice to sailing, I would respectfully suggest that it may not be all that you think it is. I could be wrong, and you may very well understand what you're in for or at least be willing to tolerate the fact that it may very well deviate from what you're envisioning, and you don't care because you will have lived/realized the dream. In that case, I look forward to reading about your adventures! But for many, the purchase of a large boat represents a significant investment, and there are many boats out there whose owners had dreams and aspirations that were similar to yours, and then realized after jumping in with both feet that it isn't what they expected. The boats sit idle at a slip, or on the hard, deteriorating by the day as the owners try to sell the boat, their finances hanging on by a shoestring (if they are lucky). I've said it many times before here - my goal is to make sure you're going into this with your eyes open, and as informed as possible about what you're getting into. As long as that's the case, then I wish you well in your endeavor.

What is your plan for learning to sail? Will you take ASA courses, or buy a boat and learn on it?

I definitely understand. and please feel free to tell me if my eyes are bigger than my stomach, I am always biting off more than I can chew. Thank you for stating that. This is a 5 year plan, so there are a lot of things that need to come together for it to happen. You bring up an interesting question in my mind about learning to sail:

1. What is your thinking on the classes first, then buy a boat Versus Buy a boat and learn on it. I am sure there are positives and drawbacks to both. My thinking was that I would learn to sail through classes. However, as DRFerron pointed out about the Wind Works sailing club in Seattle, it seems awfully expensive to go through their courses. Taking all their courses would probably run in the thousands of dollars (basic Keel boat, coastal cruising, navigation etc.) although they are an ASA certified instruction, and clearly I need to be trained up. I don't want to take a soaking in the process.

1. What were some unpleasant surprises for you when you first started sailing?

2. What are some bits of information you would have liked to have had that you didn't get when you first started sailing.

Last edited by CrimsonBrain; 08-25-2013 at 06:33 PM.
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  #15  
Old 08-25-2013
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Re: Salutations

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonBrain View Post
Donna,
Yes, I agree that not actually being any part of a sailing community or boating community in the area is a drawback, and most of my research has on my own, lurking sites like this, watching videos as a matter of fact I've seen Ian's video on single handing the 57 foot Jeanneau. Very impressive. I hope to rectify the situation about getting closer to the boating community as I get into sailing classes and post on the various sites. There is a boat show coming up in January, and I am looking forward to that. Definitely talking to other boat owners would be helpful and asking the right questions of course. Bringing me to these questions:

1. What was the greatest surprise(good) you got when you purchased your boat?
That I could actually make the damn thing sail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonBrain View Post

2. What was the greatest shock you received when you bought your boat?
From the survey we knew that our engine had issues but we expected to get a few more years than we did from it. The new engine (engine and labor and whatever was needed to make a higher HP engine fit) cost more than we paid for the boat but we were too fed up with things breaking on EVERY trip that we sucked it up and went for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonBrain View Post
3. What are somethings you would have done differently during the research and purchase of your boat?
We almost made some mistakes in the purchase process. Fortunately, the broker refused to let us follow through and thus saved us a lot of money. Other than that, I'm happy with the way I went about things.
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  #16  
Old 08-26-2013
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Re: Salutations

I found a local (county-run) introduction to sailing program at a local lake, and learned the basics that way. $85/person for my wife and me, and I think we had 3-5 classes one day a week for a few hours a class in a 14.5' with an instructor. The way it worked out, it was just her and me with the instructor each time. After that, I wanted to learn to sail more, but I'm too frugal to pay for classes. Plus, I wanted sailing to be a family thing, and it's not really a family thing when I'm the only one taking the class. So, we went the "buy first, learn later" route.

As to your questions about surprises, etc., I'm not the one to ask.
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  #17  
Old 08-26-2013
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Re: Salutations

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonBrain View Post
1. What was the greatest surprise(good) you got when you purchased your boat?
How much I liked racing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonBrain View Post
2. What was the greatest shock you received when you bought your boat?
I like working on it and had a pretty good idea of what my budget should be, but it is even more expensive than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonBrain;10792313.
What are somethings you would have done differently during the research and purchase of your boat?
On my second boat I think I did a great job because I knew what I was looking for after the first boat.

On my first boat I should have looked longer and spent a little more to get a boat that was in better condition. I bought a boat that had a super solid hull, deck, and a brand new motor. However I spent a lot of time and money replacing sails, running rigging, interior cushions, plumbing, electrical, rudder&tiller, and many other major components. That cost more than if I'd bought a boat that had been upgraded more often throughout it's life. On the other hand it's really nice to bring an older boat back to peak condition and I like knowing every single component on the boat and having it setup the way that I prefer.

That boat is actually for sale now on Craigslist by the owner who bought it from me (it is a Catalina 25).

I will say that the Seattle Boat Show isn't all that useful for sailors. There are only a small number of sailboats on display and you could see almost of them any day of the week by visiting the brokers on Lake Union and at Shilshole Marina. Go for the bargains on gear (like inflatable PFDs), don't go for sailboat shopping.
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  #18  
Old 08-26-2013
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Re: Salutations

While I generally agree with Alex's point about the costs, I will add two caveats: you don't (always) HAVE to make the investment up front, and YOU get to pick the gear that is installed. For my C25, I wanted to get new(er) sails, etc., but I knew that that could wait because the boat was basically usable in the condition in which it was purchased. I did want/need new covers for the cabin cushions, but I did those myself and kept my costs down that way. So, while I do agree that in the end it is cheaper to let someone else do the work (you only pay, at most, the depreciated value of the improvments), taking an incremental approach to improvements can also work. It also leaves money in your budget for unforseen issues that crop up. Here's an example of the kind of stuff that can crop up (also discussed in my blog):
Apparently I'm not meant to have a boat...
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  #19  
Old 08-26-2013
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Re: Salutations

I am in the same boat. Buy a small boat 22-25 with an outboard CHEAP, fix it sail it,
suffer with it, when your through with it sell it. If you get what you paid for it your good. Keep looking for THE boat all the time. I haven"t done it is all second hand.
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