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robert@hm 12-04-2012 09:04 AM

Honda Guy Here...
 
Just a short intro, I am the Social Media Guy for Honda Marine and Honda Power Equipment (generators, mowers, tillers, etc.) and am here to help with any Honda-related questions.

-Robert@Honda
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone.

chucklesR 12-04-2012 09:09 AM

Re: Honda Guy Here...
 
whoops, posted this is the other thread - here goes again..

What makes the Honda so darn good as opposed to the competition?

I'm in the market for a boat generator, but at 1600 continuous the Honda 2000 is at the low edge of running my A/C - so I'm looking at the Yahama 2800 instead, but stuck on quality of the Honda.

bnaylor 12-04-2012 10:30 PM

Honda Guy Here...
 
Hi Robert, and thanks for starting this thread. I have a fairly new Honda 5-HP 4-stroke outboard on my sailboat. It's very thrifty on fuel but has one major disappointing drawback - if left sitting for 4-weeks or so, the carb gums up and it will either fail to start or run very rough. This is a very common, recurring problem that leaves me questioning my choice of motor. My dealer says that the low speed jets in the carb are really small and prone to fouling. I always disconnect the fuel line and let the engine run out of fuel after each use. Our Arizona summer temperatures likely hasten the break-down of the fuel and the creation of gum and varnish deposits.

Starting in June, I've been running LL100 aviation gas in it, and it has gone 6-weeks between uses and still starts and runs well.

Is this the answer to my problem - av gas? Is there a better answer? Is there any downside to using av gas? Yes, it's expensive; but, I haven't missed any sailing days since using it, and it's cheaper than having my carb cleaned several times a year.

Thanks for any info that you can share.

- Bob

xymotic 12-04-2012 10:39 PM

Re: Honda Guy Here...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bnaylor (Post 957119)
Hi Robert, and thanks for starting this thread. I have a fairly new Honda 5-HP 4-stroke outboard on my sailboat. It's very thrifty on fuel but has one major disappointing drawback - if left sitting for 4-weeks or so, the carb gums up and it will either fail to start or run very rough. This is a very common, recurring problem that leaves me questioning my choice of motor. My dealer says that the low speed jets in the carb are really small and prone to fouling. I always disconnect the fuel line and let the engine run out of fuel after each use. Our Arizona summer temperatures likely hasten the break-down of the fuel and the creation of gum and varnish deposits.

Starting in June, I've been running LL100 aviation gas in it, and it has gone 6-weeks between uses and still starts and runs well.

Is this the answer to my problem - av gas? Is there a better answer? Is there any downside to using av gas? Yes, it's expensive; but, I haven't missed any sailing days since using it, and it's cheaper than having my carb cleaned several times a year.

Thanks for any info that you can share.

- Bob

That's not a honda problem, it's physics. The jets are the size the have to be. All small motors are having problems like this nowadays. The solution is to avoid gasoline with Ethanol in it. AV gas is one way but there is probably a cheaper alternative. see Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada for a station near you.

xymotic 12-04-2012 10:45 PM

Re: Honda Guy Here...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chucklesR (Post 956755)
whoops, posted this is the other thread - here goes again..

What makes the Honda so darn good as opposed to the competition?

I'm in the market for a boat generator, but at 1600 continuous the Honda 2000 is at the low edge of running my A/C - so I'm looking at the Yahama 2800 instead, but stuck on quality of the Honda.

Yeah! I got another bitch Robert! When I first got my boat the 65hp engine was so loud you couldn't hear the person sitting next to you.

I switched it to a Honda 20.

First problem was that the Honda was way lighter, but also faster with more power, your product just makes no sense whatsoever.

But then as if that weren't bad enough one day I got distracted at the boat launch and just drove the 3 blocks home without latching down the back of the boat. When I went back to tie it down I discovered That Damned honda was running the whole time. It's too damned quiet. And it really should have been damaged running for 15 min or so with no cooling. But nothing, nada, not even the impeller broke.

So please get that stuff sorted and then maybe you'll have a competative product to sell.:cool:

I'm not buying anymore damned Hondas though because the ones I have won't break. What the hell man!? Don't you want to sell me a new motor?

davidpm 12-04-2012 11:16 PM

Re: Honda Guy Here...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by xymotic (Post 957121)

I'm in Connecticut which seems to be in a pure-gas free zone. Everyone I know is having problems with outboards that are gas related.
Can anyone purchase avgass? If so where?
I can't see myself pulling to to Bradly International with a 5 gallon gas tank.

hellosailor 12-04-2012 11:52 PM

Re: Honda Guy Here...
 
Gents, I would argue that it is a problems of physics BUT that's an engineering problem and Honda is responsible for the engineering in their products.

Honda would not be the first company that simply built a product without testing it in every possible environment. Apparently, when you have an engine of that size, and you design tiny carb jets in order to accomodate a small fuel flow, and then you add US market gasoline and the Arizona climate, you exceed the operating parameters of the engine.

That doesn't mean Honda is evil (that's reserved for Google) just that someone built an engine which is not suitable for that particular market. Perhaps it is a design problem, perhaps there are other ways to feed that size engine in that climate. Doesn't really matter unless you want to argue that Honda should take the engine back due to an inherent design defect.

What might be simpler, and certainly cheaper than chasing avgas, is just adding Sta-Bil or a similar gasoline stabilant to the fuel with (sadly) every filling. These products aren't just high end solvents, they are typically a naphtha base but with some enzymes or anti-oxidants or other "pinch of magic" dissolved in there.

And they've got a track record for preventing gumming and fuel breakdowns.

The other option is to disconnect the fuel (or is that an internal tank?) or do what you must to allow the engine to be RUN DRY after each use. That runs the gas out of the carb, typically preventing gumming in the passages.

Disappointing engineering, disappointing fuel. I wish I could buy pure gasoline for my car, ethanol is just throwing away money and since I burn about 10% more, it isn't really saving on emissions either.

xymotic 12-04-2012 11:57 PM

Re: Honda Guy Here...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by davidpm (Post 957129)
I'm in Connecticut which seems to be in a pure-gas free zone. Everyone I know is having problems with outboards that are gas related.
Can anyone purchase avgass? If so where?
I can't see myself pulling to to Bradly International with a 5 gallon gas tank.

you can buy gas at po-dunk small town airports. Race gas for go-carts or better motorcycle shops as well.

xymotic 12-05-2012 12:01 AM

Re: Honda Guy Here...
 
Well, it's an engineering problem that NOBODY has solved.

Ethanol gas creates a moving target that depends on a number of basically unpredictable conditions.

But yeah stabil or sea foam will help too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellosailor (Post 957141)
Gents, I would argue that it is a problems of physics BUT that's an engineering problem and Honda is responsible for the engineering in their products.

Honda would not be the first company that simply built a product without testing it in every possible environment. Apparently, when you have an engine of that size, and you design tiny carb jets in order to accomodate a small fuel flow, and then you add US market gasoline and the Arizona climate, you exceed the operating parameters of the engine.

That doesn't mean Honda is evil (that's reserved for Google) just that someone built an engine which is not suitable for that particular market. Perhaps it is a design problem, perhaps there are other ways to feed that size engine in that climate. Doesn't really matter unless you want to argue that Honda should take the engine back due to an inherent design defect.

What might be simpler, and certainly cheaper than chasing avgas, is just adding Sta-Bil or a similar gasoline stabilant to the fuel with (sadly) every filling. These products aren't just high end solvents, they are typically a naphtha base but with some enzymes or anti-oxidants or other "pinch of magic" dissolved in there.

And they've got a track record for preventing gumming and fuel breakdowns.

The other option is to disconnect the fuel (or is that an internal tank?) or do what you must to allow the engine to be RUN DRY after each use. That runs the gas out of the carb, typically preventing gumming in the passages.

Disappointing engineering, disappointing fuel. I wish I could buy pure gasoline for my car, ethanol is just throwing away money and since I burn about 10% more, it isn't really saving on emissions either.


xymotic 12-05-2012 12:04 AM

Re: Honda Guy Here...
 
here's another link that might work Sunoco Race Fuels | Fuel Finder and you can often get good gas at farm/ranch/equipment places. As well as marinas. Anywhere that uses engines 'off highway'


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