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  #31  
Old 07-14-2009
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Irwin 38 Citation

Saw your posts, in '07 - '08 re: Irwin's/ Seems a lot of disagreement with respect to seaworthiness. I'm looking at a 38 Citation...1988. It's been mentioned problems with early to mid-80s. I'd like to know if that was cleared up by 1988, and where I might find some solid information. There seems to be a lot of conjecture out there. This will be my first sailboat. I've been boating a long time. I'm outside Chicago, but on Lake Michigan, which is just as nasty as the Atlantic, so I want to be sure I know what I'm looking for.

Any help would be great!!

Thanks,

Michael
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  #32  
Old 07-14-2009
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The 38 Citation is a nice sailing boat and an excellent value and fairly fast.
No...this is not a blue water boat and yes... she is fine for lake Michigan provided you get a good survey and engine analysis. Pay particular attention to the tanks if they have not been replaced.
I don't think Irwins are any better or worse than the other production boats of the era and if their QC was spotty...that has likely sorted itself out by this time and a survey will tell you what you need to know.
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  #33  
Old 07-14-2009
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My friends, the Campbells, out of Jacksonville, sailed their Irwin Citation (I thought 37, maybe 38?) to Murmansk many years ago. I've thought that there's a cause to think that the term "blue Water" should be attributed to the Captain and crew as much as to the vessel. It's prudent choice and diligence of care that allows vessels to succeed as well as construction. I'm reminded of the many vessels that are retrieved in sound condition after the rescue of their crew. I'm slow to accept that variations in construction are the determining factors in cruising success. I'd be interested in the conspicuous results of numerical data that compares the man with the machine. I think the "machine" is carrying a little myth! 'take care and joy, Aythya crew
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  #34  
Old 07-14-2009
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+1 CaptainForce.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainForce View Post
My friends, the Campbells, out of Jacksonville, sailed their Irwin Citation (I thought 37, maybe 38?) to Murmansk many years ago. I've thought that there's a cause to think that the term "blue Water" should be attributed to the Captain and crew as much as to the vessel. It's prudent choice and diligence of care that allows vessels to succeed as well as construction. I'm reminded of the many vessels that are retrieved in sound condition after the rescue of their crew. I'm slow to accept that variations in construction are the determining factors in cruising success. I'd be interested in the conspicuous results of numerical data that compares the man with the machine. I think the "machine" is carrying a little myth! 'take care and joy, Aythya crew
Yes of course the Captain and Crew are probably 2/3 of the "safety at sea " equation and this comment and discussion has been made countless times by countless posters here.
They always comment on the number of boats recovered without crew. Why does no one ever comment on the number of boats and crew that simply disappear or the number of crew picked up in life rafts?
Never forget that there are TWO components to safety and a boat that does not leak like a sieve, shake itself to death, loose it's rudder or rig or prevent access to the hull in holing situations is more likely to be able to stand up to the rigors of cruising, and be a comfortable and safe platform for the experienced captain and crew.
Oh and that experienced captain will insure that even those boats which are acknowledged as blue water vessels go to sea in ship shape condition as nothing lasts forever.
Some people cheer the inexperienced and unprepared on....some people say any boat can cross an ocean. Sometimes those people will be right. And those success stories will encourage others to lose their lives...needlessly.

C Force...this is NOT personal criticism just commenting on your remarks as they are like so many others..and my guess is that you and your boat are prepared for whatever adventure you choose.
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Last edited by camaraderie; 07-14-2009 at 11:30 PM.
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  #36  
Old 12-20-2009
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Bob

Have just joined so cannot send PW. Don't intend to hijack the thread, but interested to know if you have a traveller as your picture might indicate.

I started a thread on this topic so if you or anyone has experience or advice, please respond through that thread.

Many thanks

Boatseeker (John)
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  #37  
Old 02-26-2010
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This is my old Irwin 38:

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  #38  
Old 03-08-2010
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Smile Blue water & Lake Michigan

Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
The 38 Citation is a nice sailing boat and an excellent value and fairly fast.
No...this is not a blue water boat and yes... she is fine for lake Michigan
I don't think Irwins are any better or worse than the other production boats of the era .
I have sailed both blue water and Lake Michigan and I can tell from experience that blue water sailing seems easier than LM with the exception that in LM you are always closer to a safe harbor. It is not unforeseen to have 9 ft waves on LM that are to close to ride them like you could in "blue water" 12' waves. Resulting in a pounding of your ship that must be build to withstand this.
Therefore if a boat is good for LM she is good for blue water (when equipped correctly)
I've sailed the North Sea off the NW cost of Europe and can tell you that, that small body of water is much worse than some big oceans. The same with the Great Lakes, a lot of large commercial vessels perished in these "timid" inland lakes. Don't under estimate them they similar to oceans only not as salty.
EJO
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Old 07-10-2011
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I know this a old thread. But hopefully it does not fall on deaf ears. I tried to PM jzk, but I am short of the 15 posts needed. So I will post my PM here in the hopes the JZK gets this.
"Hello,
I came across your comments in a thread on irwins being "bluewater" worthy. I saw the pic you posted of your irwin and could not help but notice the similarities to the one I have owned now for 2 years. It is on the hard in Waukegan in but should be launched this month after two years of work. I wanted to know, do you know where your boat ended up? Do you have any more pics maybe of the inside too? I would love to see how they are supposed to look. My boat is a 70' irwin 38-1 and I have a main sail with the same numbers as yours in that shot you posted.

Feel free to reply to my email at jedstrom(at)periphix.......com
-Jeff"
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  #40  
Old 07-10-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
..............C Force...this is NOT personal criticism just commenting on your remarks as they are like so many others..and my guess is that you and your boat are prepared for whatever adventure you choose.
Certainly not taken as a personal criticism,- your points are valid. It would be a mistake to focus on any single character of vessel or crew or equipment as the determination of capability. Take care and joy, Aythya crew
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