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I-28 Vinyl Headliner Replacement

15K views 27 replies 6 participants last post by  downeast450 
#1 ·
Well, all the staples have about rusted out and the zipper pulls have turned to dust so it's time to think about replacing the vinyl overhead on my 1979 Islander 28. I'm a little tired of the 1970's RV look so I'd rather not just replace the vinyl fabric. Any thoughts out there? A couple of criteria come to mind. First, in the PNW, insulation is critical to keeping condensation at bay. Otherwise it rains both inside and outside simultaneously. How does insulation become part of the fix? Second, if it condenses between the fiberglass cabin top and the new liner, where does the water go? The old liner had some foam backing that kind of soaked it all up and dried out by late August in a dry summer if you were lucky. Third, the I-28 has some pretty extreme curves that the vinyl covers nicely but what about wood? How do you hand mold that into place?
 
#2 ·
I have some what of an answer to the condensation issue. I ask this of the guy who has done several restorations of my auto headliners, they too tend to sweat. He stated, if you use vinyl, does not breath, it has to be the perforated vinyl lik you see in the older cars. If you use cloth as the material for you headliner, it breaths and does not need the small holes. So, I'm guessing Islander put the foam under the vinyl, as you stated, to absorb moisture because the vinyl was not of the perforated type.

So, when I do my headliner, I will be using headliner cardboard, foam, then cloth. I will glue the foam to the headliner board then glue the cloth to the foam. I have posted some pictures of one of my car headliners, he also did my door panels the same way. Obviously, the headliner in the boat wont have the rods, but I plan to use 1 1/2 batons.
 

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#4 ·
I have started part of my solution to this problem. I have attached several 3/4 inch thick plywood blocks in locations I want to space the FRP material away from the boat hull. I will use the plywood stand offs to also secure the mahogany batons running port to starboard. I plan to use mahogany plywood to cover the funky shaped areas above the galley and 1/4berth, making the headliner just straight. I will attach several plywood blocks to attach the mahogany plywood to. I think it can be done with two flat pieces to close off the area, then put small mahogany trim for a corner, and 1/4 round where it would meet the old plywood paneling.

I'm going to attach some trim where the headliner was stapled to hold the edges of the FRP. Where there is the funky plastic trim, I will just use mahogany trim instead. I may have to glue up some thin wood strips to attach the trim to. It will look great but take some effort, the material is very affordable.

You can get the FRP in several colors, smooth finish or Ice finish. Home Depot sells and stocks 4x8 pieces in white with the Ice finish. I plan to use the smooth finish, more of a mat finish, less reflective, just my preference.

Here is the stocked FRP at Home Depot.
4 ft. x 8 ft. White .090 FRP Wall Board-MFTF12IXA480009600 at The Home Depot

You can get the mahogny plywood and trim pieces at a lumber yard that supplies hardwood and cabinetry wood trimming.
 
#5 ·
An interesting approach 510. I considered much the same thing except for your ingenious treatment of the aft corners of the cabin trunk. I backed off this approach mostly because I could never figure out how to deal with condensation between the headliner and cabin. Up here in the soggy Northwest, I have seen it raining inside my boat even when I left a ceramic heater to try and keep things dry. Also my experience with FRP and similar materials in suspended horizontal applications has not been good. I once used the grooved and primed version on one of my exterior porch ceilings and the panels sagged between the 16" joists. I forgot that these materials absorb atmospheric water and are plastic in the sense that they will deform over time from their own weight if unsupported. These problems could be solved by painting the back sides of the panels, using closely spaced attachments, ventilation holes through the edge trim, and gluing 1/2" Styrofoam to the overhead cabin fiberglass. This still leaves the issue of access should a failure or change to the blocks and cleats through-bolted through the deck require access. However, I'm thinking I may be solving a problem which doesn't apply to you in your location.

Because I already own one of those handy-dandy Sailrite industrial sewing machines and can more or less put two seams together, I have opted to sew up a new headliner using the old as a pattern. I will use the above-mentioned Styrofoam, S.S. or Monel staples, mahogany trim to replace the trailer trash trim, and a breathable fabric. Of course my plans rarely survive contact with reality but I will try and keep you posted on the project if you will do the same for me. Thanks.
 
#6 ·
I'm not sure we are talking about the same material. Did you check the link I posted?
The material I'm referring to is .09(3/32) inches thick, Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic, it's all synthetic, lite, high strength, and resist mold and mildew, used in restraints, airplanes, etc. It's similar to the opaque textured plastic used for the light fixtures areas on a lowered ceiling, or office lights, but is more ridged.

I have a friend who did his headliner in a Colombia with the material I'm referring too, and it looks great.

Did you use MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard)? MDF would absorb water, be thicker, heavier, and deform over time if suspended overhead.

I would think you would have had the same condensation issue with the vinyl headliner since it does not breath either. The foam between the fiberglass and vinyl would soak up the water.

If you put a cloth headliner instead of vinyl, it would breath better, or use the vinyl headliner material with the small holes, like used in cars.

I would try insulating the fiberglass with Styrofoam, or spray on closed cell polyurethane foam, then installing whatever option you choose for the headliner.

I should be taking on this project this summer, and will post up my process and pictures, when I'm done.
 
#7 ·
I stand corrected on the material. You are also correct that the 1/4" open cell foam on the back of my existing vinyl would saturate every winter and take most of the summer to dry out. It never dripped but it sure rotted out the seams and metal zipper pulls. Thus my choice of breathable fabric. I'm intrigued by the idea of a spray-on insulation rather than glued-on chunks of styrofoam. Maybe with some practice I can get a fairly consistent thickness but foam-in-a-can and I are not good friends when it comes to fine work. Any product or application suggestions?
 
#8 ·
I have "ignored" the poor condition of the vinyl liners in my 1977 I-28. There are two useless zippers. Perhaps 3. The staples are all rusted. It is not fresh and clean..... I have pulled it down in the quarter birth and in the space between the stbd chain plate and the "chart table":D Ha! Next it will probably need to be removed for access in the V birth. It is time to do something.

Access to fasteners is important. I want to install a winch and have concerns about the integrity of the joint between the sliding hatch's enclosure and the deck. I will be replacing the glazing too.

I do have quite a lot of experience with fg, wood and paint.

I don't have lots of money to spend but when I tackle a job like this, the finished product is the goal and the amount of time I know it will take is part of the real cost. The percentage of the total cost (my labor included) that the materials will cost out of pocket is how I try to plan my budget. If it is worth my time and I want it done right I will spend some money on the right materials.

I have a supply of lumber that is valuable but I don't want to leave it behind and I like working with nice wood. No cost!
I have all the tools. No cost!
I have plenty of 2 part epoxy paint and the fg materials to repair a leaking hatch enclosure. No cost!
I have the time and enjoy working on the boat. No cost!

I am building up to rationalizing spending some money for a sprayable 2-part marine foam kit. I have used them and they are a great way to insulate a hull.

I am considering finishing the ceiling with longitudinal strips of mahogany, painted white, spaced 1/4" apart, fastened to wood "stringers" running athwart ship.

The same ceilings in the V birth and the 1/4 birth, both the overhead and the sides.

Strip the interior, repair the hatch enclosure, epoxy stringers in place (West), mask them, block out fastener spaces somehow or plan to dig them out to make them accessible, and foam, cut the foam level with stringers and paint it, fasten pre painted mahogany strips to stringers.

2" wide strips? 1" thick stringers?

What do you think?

Down
 
#9 ·
Downeast, now you've got my attention! First, because unlike that lucky California dog 510, I'll bet Downeasters maintain a working relationship with condensation. Second, because anyone who regards their time working on a boat as beyond value (some would say "worthless") is a kindred soul, and third because it sounds like you know about something I need. What is "a sprayable 2-part marine foam kit"? Is it an improvement over foam-in-a-can or "foam-in your-hair" which is usually more accurate?

Your proposal for the cabin ceiling sounds beautiful although I hate painting mahogany because its so pretty. However, I understand the need for a brighter interior. What about tranverse varnished mahogany 1" trim strips every 3' or so to break up the strong longitudinal lines you would introduce? I saw a similar strip treatment for the 1/4 berth and vee-berth using varnished Western red cedar on the sides and top and it was gorgeous. Only two other questions which I think can be solved. What will you see between the 1/4" gaps and what about the strongly curved vinyl covered sections in the aft corners of the cabin trunk? Any thoughts on what to do about the vinyl covered partial bulkhead holding the port chainplates?
 
#12 ·
Here is a link to one of the available foam kits. If you decide to do this please take safety precautions and wear a hooded disposable Tyvec coverall or you will have foam in your hair.:D Mask everything close by, carefully. Preparation is very important. Rehearse the paths you will follow. The kits come with a "gun" that mixes the two parts in a disposable, removable nozzle. The right kit will include several tips so you can start and stop several times as you use up the product. One tip for the V birth area, one for the 1/4 birth and perhaps two stages in the main cabin....Use a slow foam for maximum depth precision.

I will paint the finished foam surface white. It hardens to a density that you can barely put a dent in with your finger so under and between the wood strips it will look fine. I am thinking I will epoxy short sections of pvc pipe over the fasteners, mask their ends and push a dry (removable) foam plug into each one before fastening the wood strips.

Painting the mahogany? I get it. I will "wash it" with a thinned 2 part epoxy. I don't need any more varnish. The mahogany is available and an appropriate wood. I would not want a dark ceiling in this little space. A clear urethane on the mahogany would be too dark. The transverse trim strips might work. I need to think about that. I like it.

The partial bulkhead gets faired and painted white. The curved aft corners will probably get epoxied and painted white but I will figure out how that gets done when the time comes. It is a fun detail.

Handi Foam SR Two-Component Poured-In-Place Foam

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#10 ·
gknott, I would think the easiest method, and one I plan to use, is to attach 1/4 to 3/4 Styrofoam pieces cut out around all visible hardware. I know I'm lucky living were condensation is minimal compared to other areas, but any leads to mildew, and I don't want that. So, I to will take the precautions to insulate to combat the condensation issue.

I will then put up the FRP with mahogany batons running port to starboard, attached with screws to 3/4 plywood attached using polyurethane, using wood buttons to plug the screw holes in the batons.

For the odd shaped sections, above the Galley and 1/4 birth, use crown molding the size large enough to across the protruding portion to intersect to a piece of 1/4 mahogany plywood cut to to shape of the triangular section. If i can't find a crown molding piece, I will cut a of mahogany, ripped on a table saw at the necessary angles needed. Then put some 1/4 round and corner trim mahogany to cover the intersecting locations. I have photo below showing the approximate area in black. The picture is before I removed the headliner.
[URL="
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As I said before, I will post up my project once I have done the modifications.

Good Luck if you do yours first!
 
#13 ·
downeast450,
thanks for the links on the spray on foam, may check in to using it on the boat. I have seen a spray on rubberized product used for car undercoating, an Eastwood Auto Supply product, don't know if it would work to insulate, but easy to spray on. The product can be painted, comes in black, and adheres to fiberglass. I was thinking the rubberized coating would be enough to provide a thermal barrier to prevent the condensation on the hull. The product can be sprayed or comes in a brush on form too. The product would be easy to control where you want to apply the finish. You could paint it too.

What do you think?

Rubberized Undercoating

gknott,

Thanks, I really do love the Islander 28 inside and out! It's a good thing too, cause I'm putting in lots of hours fixing problems inherited from years of neglect by previous owners. Above the stove is an old small florescent light, I actually like the light, it's not an obnoxious as most florescent lights, it was there when I purchased the boat.
 
#14 · (Edited)
downeast450,
thanks for the links on the spray on foam, may check in to using it on the boat. I have seen a spray on rubberized product used for car undercoating, an Eastwood Auto Supply product, don't know if it would work to insulate, but easy to spray on. The product can be painted, comes in black, and adheres to fiberglass. I was thinking the rubberized coating would be enough to provide a thermal barrier to prevent the condensation on the hull. The product can be sprayed or comes in a brush on form too. The product would be easy to control where you want to apply the finish. You could paint it too.

What do you think?
An interesting solution. I am not sure how the thermal properties compare. I will go with the marine 2 part foam. A small kit will do the ceilings and the hull where appropriate. Down to the wl. I am looking for improved heating, too. The ice box will also get some around its outside.

Rubberized Undercoating

gknott,
downeast450,
Thanks, I really do love the Islander 28 inside and out! It's a good thing too, cause I'm putting in lots of hours fixing problems inherited from years of neglect by previous owners.
I know what you mean. I am in the same boat! ;)
downeast450,
Above the stove is an old small florescent light, I actually like the light, it's not an obnoxious as most florescent lights, it was there when I purchased the boat.
No light like that in mine.

Down
 
#15 ·
Hello
Did you have success with your headliner replacement?

I read the thread here with interest and wondered how it worked out for you. I have a Freedom 30 which we have been sailing for 2 years without a headliner while we try to figure out how to retain good access to hardware and wiring while still beautifying interior of cabin roof. Condensation, fortunately, is not one of our problems.
 
#16 ·
Sorry, but my nefarious plan was to encourage all those other guys to do their headliners first and then I'd piggyback on their efforts. They must have seen right through me because I never heard back from anyone. So my headliner looks about the same as it did last year - a saggy, rust-stained monument to my lack of ambition. One good thing is that as the staples fail and the zippers disintegrate, access to the underside of the deck fittings gets easier and easier. But if you ever decide to replace your headliner please post the pictures. soto voce Heh Heh. Another one on the line!.
 
#17 ·
Sorry for taking so long to post a reply. I have almost finished my headliner replacement in the saloon area. I use a matt finished FRP and mahogany battens to cover the seams. I used 3/4" blocks bonded to the fiberglass in locations as needed for screws in the battens, and to space the FRP off the hull to account for hardware and electrical. Seams for the FRP can also be covered with plastic strips made for the FRP.
The FRP comes in several colors and finishes. I choose matt white, but the most popular finish is the ice white, a textured rough finish.
Here is a link to Home Depot that has the FRP Ice finish. I had to special order the Matt finish from my local hardware and lumber store.
4 ft. x 8 ft. White .090 FRP Wall Board-MFTF12IXA480009600 at The Home Depot

I will try to get some pictures posted up in the next week or so. I also used mahogany 3/4 X 1/8 strips with rounded corners to cover the 3/4 welting used on the original liner. I use a mahogany 1 1/2 X 3/16 X 8' strips for my battens.

Summation of the project
If I had to do it all over again, I would just remove the headliner, put a quick sand job on the fiberglass, and paint it matt white. Yes you can see the hardware, and may have to put a few electrical ties to secure the wiring, but I think it would be an easier way to go. After all, I have a 1971 boat, and its only worth so much.
Making patterns, placing the blocks, etc, took loads of time, effort, and two people for most of the project. The sand and paint is a once person job for the most part.

Cons to sanding and painting, is the mess, using the correct equipment for sanding the fiberglass. I rather suit up, wear a hat, respirator, and vacuum sander, then have to do all of the measuring, cutting, and bonding blocks.

Pros of FRP headliner it looks better then sanding and painting. So, it's your call on how much work you want to spend on the headliner.

Hope this helped you
I'll be back soon with pics of my FRP headliner.
 
#18 ·
The headliner on our I-28 IS coming down this storage season. After playing with leaks that are controlled by covering the companionway hatch with a tarp, I have concluded the inside "cover/base" of the sliding hatch cover's "drawer" is leaking into the boat under the headliner. That part was fiberglassed to an inverted deck molding. It seems to be leaking along its starboard side. Years of uncovered storage with ice forming where ever water could sit. It needs to be sealed and re engineered to drain properly. Then insulate and replace the headliner! Ugh? A lot of time invested in this old boat. Yup! I don't mind investing some of my "retirement time" working on the little craft I enjoy. I like being thoroughly familiar with it. There probably is a point of diminishing returns on money spent. Time, not so much. After I repair the leak I might just paint the ceilings with white two part epoxy as a first step. There are a couple of other little projects that require access to the inside fiberglass surface.

Down
 
#19 ·
downeast thats what I did on my 36, temporary but with wood trim and some fairing the white celing paint and white sides brightened my interior 1000%

even in the tropics my old interior was damp, old and very dark with all the brown vynil and brown dark plywood veneer on the sides
 
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#20 ·
I think this is the best overall solution and you can always add a headliner of your choice and method. The advantage to having just paint is you don't trap any water, you can see where you have leaks, less mold possibilities, choose your color, less money for parts, can be done with one person, and gives a brighter roomier feel to the interior. However, not as of refined finished appearance to the interior. Just have to ask yourself what is the boat actually worth, personal attachment left out, we all love our boats, but not everyone love our boats as we do when shelling out the bucks to buy.:(
 
#21 ·
bingo...I know I can fetch more money for my boat for example with just some interior decoration(headliner, trim...more fairing.

but when youre out of $$$ you pretty much cant so Ill wait with my temporary solution

FOR NOW! jajaja
 
#22 ·
Im in the trade so have done a few of these. For starts just to let you know this is the most painful expensive upholstery job you can undertake. The MFA time sheet lists this at 4 hrs per yard of material used. So at a shop rate of say $60 an hour your looking at $275-$300 per yard is what your saving by doing it yourself.

My favorite method of doing headliners would be with foamboard panels. The pvc foamboard is wonderful stuff. Its super light, easy to cut and tool, takes fasteners with a good grip and with a heat gun can be molded into curves and recesses. The sheets come in 1/4" , 1/2" , and 3/4". Ideally these would be installed with the fastmount system


The fastmount allows the panels to be pulled down for access to those bolts that you wanted to get at. Over the foamboard a perforated or solid foam backed vinyl is typically used. Its a pita to glue even to panels but leaves a nice comfortable finish. With the panel system the vinyl can be rolled over the edges and stapled so its not considered unsupported vinyl. Which very few adhesives work for.

Just my two cents. anyway you do it remember this is a high dollar venture that your doing yourself. I price glue up vinyl so high I hope to never get another. Its that bad.
 
#23 ·
great info...
I cruised on a boat extensively made of paneling inside...it was a steel french boat...almost everything was accessible via panels, the hull and cabin that is

every single panel had glued on vynil or just wood veneer...the vynil covered ones also had BUTTONS each panel was attached via either velcro strips or fasteners or screws

multiply this by the interior area needed to be covered and you can see why its a great idea but MASSIVE job

the captain of this boat did all his interior and said he would never do a job like this again...but he also had to do cabinetry...floors, ceilings, bulkheads etc...everything however the finishing took him waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay longer than he expected
 
#24 · (Edited)
Ok, I finally got my interior some what as a finished look. I used white smooth finished FRP for the headliner, secured wood block spacers, used mahogany batons and trim. I used the wood blocks to space the FRP off of the hull and to screw the FRP too. I used some mahogany trim piece I picked up at my local lumber yard and are pretty standard wood trim.

Mahogany trim used




I used the the Mahogany for the trim on the FRP, same as for the batons, but had to router one side of the trim to have both sided with a radius for batons. I couldn't get it with both sides with a radius. You can use the wider popular wood trim with both sides with a radius, but you would have to stain the popular. You can use a popular instead of mahogany if you wanted.

First step to using the FRP is to secure wood blocks in locations to space the FRP off of the hull and to clear hardware. I used polyurethane to secure my blocks. I then measured and cut the FRP. I chose to run the batons length wise so I didn't have to bend my wood batons, but it might be better for the FRP to have them the other way. I had to deal with the FRP wrinkling do to my center hatch. I used a heat gun to remove most, but still have more work to do to get them smoothed out. I didn't insulate my headliner, but adding Styrofoam to the back of the FRP would be easy enough if desired.

So, I did have some panel rot and severe water fade. I thought about removing and installing new wood panel, but Teak panel is expensive, and would be time consuming to do the remove. I had sections of the wood panel that I had to repair. I chose to cut out the rotten sections, woody putty the removed sections, and paint the panel. I know you purest might hate the look, but it was the most economical and time saving option. The interior of the boat is much brighter and cleaner looking. My wife likes the new look better then the, "old dirty, dark, water stained, wood panel", I tend to agree.

Blocks installed like below


Before remodel






You can see the water stains and wood rot in the above picture.

FRP installed but panel not painted


Panel Painted




You can see I put trim against the hull to hold the edge of the FRP. I used a brad staple gun to secure the trim to the hull, becareful on the length and how deep you shoot the brads, don't need them damaging the outer layer of the hull. I used some wood clue and as few brads as possible. On the lower portion of the panel I used a thin 1/2 mahogany trim piece. I then used the 1 1/4 trim, same as the batons, and upper section, to cover the FRP at the inner self. I should have just not put FRP in the self portion. It would be easier to just paint the shelf section and had the 1/2 trim covering the panel edge. I mounted LED strips to the 1 1/4 self trim piece, which also hides the LED. In the last picture, you can see a LED dome light I added, the red and white, 4 brightness levels, touch on/off.

The actual project wasn't to bad, figuring out where all the blocks go and how thick of a block to use took the most time. You have to make patterns for the FRP from thin cardboard of similar. If you skip the FRP in the selves, v-birth, and 1/4 birth, takes 2 sheets of FRP I painted my v-birth, 1/4 birth, and head ceiling and panel, much easier and saved on FRP sheets. Once again, the painting the V-birth, and head, brighten up the drape dark area of the boat.

So, that was my solution and input to the headliner issue.
 
#26 ·
I didn't use glue, I used polyurethane. Poly is very sticky, more so then silicone, and silicone won't seal or adhere to gel-coat. The poly will hold the blocks in place while it cures. I used a tube and tube gun, put a decent dab of poly on and stuck them up where I wanted them. I did hit the spot with a quick scuff and acetone before putting up the blocks.

With two people, some team work, putting up the blocks didn't take long. While they are pretty secured once cured, you can still remove them with a putty knife and mallet, should you not like the locations or wanting a different block thickness.
 
#28 ·
Today I removed the headliner from my 1977, I-28! So it begins. Condensation problems and some leaks have been obvious for a long time. Removing the liner revealed new curiosities about this boat. The headliner looks original. When I got it down I found some of the handrail fastenings finger tight. Black iron nuts! Some of them had been smeared over with a rubbery sealant material that had long since lost its adhesion to the fg ceiling. Not all of them?? It doesn't make sense that the original builder smeared only half of the nuts with sealant. They could not have been "smeared" unless the headliner was removed and replaced. Who would "fix" leaking thru deck fasteners by covering some of the black iron nuts with goop and then pay for a new headliner? A po got scammed! Me thinks!

Now for the repairs! They will take some time. Re-bedding the hand rails, replacing the portlights, installing a couple of pieces of deck hardware, Probably a two part epoxy "primer" as a temporary finish, two part sprayable marine foam, some kind of headliner. No hurry. NO MORE LEAKS!

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