SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

Jeanneau 42 DS Comissioning

15K views 32 replies 10 participants last post by  blt2ski 
#1 · (Edited)
I just took delivery of a brand new 2011 42 DS from my dealer FLY in Miami.

We took the boat out of the water to install some underwater lights and a generator, and i found a gap between the hull and the keel.

Not only that, but the keel has been fixed and re-painted with a different paint !. My dealer assure me that the boat comes from Jeanneau America like this, but there is damage and it has been fix prior to the commissioning.

The question is , if they need to fix it, is becouse something really bad happen, even do the delaer promise me to fix it, how can i know how bad the keel is now, alignment etc etc.

When i send the posted picture to jeannou America they disagree that was form a new 2011 boat......very very funny.
 
#2 ·
"how can i know how bad the keel is now, alignment etc etc."
You hire a surveyor to inspect it. Ask around for a recommendation--and preferably someone who doesn't know the dealer.

"When i send the posted picture to jeannou America they disagree that was form a new 2011 boat......very very funny."
Jeanneau says what? That the hull and keel are new and undamaged? And you have that in writing?
If there is concealed damage on the boat, and the dealer says there is no damage, that could be criminal fraud. But you will need to document things. Get a written answer from the dealer, from Jeanneau, and from at least one credentialed surveyor to find out what you have.
Gaps...doesn't mean anything per se. WHy do you say the keel was "fixed" as opposed to perhaps simply being faired, or painted with a different paint than the hull?
 
#6 ·
That is absolutely incredible. You should not only protest with Jeanneau America but also send that to Jeanneau headquarters in France. After all they are the ones that have to protect Jeanneau name and probably are going to ask Jeanneau America what the hell is that.

hellosailor is right. Get a surveyor, document it and reject the boat, send it to the shipyard again to be fully remade. If they don't act quickly make all the noise you can and post this on all boats forums, including Jeanneau forum (talk with Marty).

Try to talk directly with EriK Stromberg the Director of After sales from Jeanneau America. I know the guy and I believe he will take the right steeps to see what happened and to correct the situation. Sometimes you should go right to the top because middle men just don't want to assume any responsibility.

Erik Stromberg | Jeanneau America | Email, Customer Support Manager, @jeanneauamerica.com

Regards

Paulo
 
#5 ·
Cooking: Caulking?

That sure looks like one incredibly big ugly improper gap. In my limited experience a nasty enough one to make me wonder if it was attached properly and profesionally at all.

If you haven't accepted delivery, don't. Get the surveyor, insist that Jeanneau have someone down to inspect the boat (and present their conclusion in writing) and if someone doesn't pull a rabbit out of the hat, you may need an attorney. Not just to get your deposit back, but to avoid being sued for refusing delivery. It might be worth contacting Jeanneau headquarters as well, and telling them there's something very odd happening over here.

It is hard to tell from that picture, but it sure does look nasty.
 
#7 ·
Paulo,

It has been posted on the JO site. I have not looked over there in the last 10 or so hours to see if anyone has posted an opin or equal. That site can be pretty slow at times.

My own opin here, it either was not put on correctly from the get go, by either the dealer or where it was made, ie J US in South Carolina, or J Fr. As I can not remember if 42's are made in SC, I thought it was only the 36i and 39i hulls. The 42 and larger I beleive are made in Fr, then shipped here via on there own hull or freighter.

My other thought, Assuming made in SC, they put it int he water correctly, it was shipped on its hull south to Miami, somewhere the delivery capt ran aground, damage as shown occured, and half ass fix was down or not at all. If built in Fr, sailed across Atlantic, ran aground tween there and here, again fix half assed done or not at all.

If truck from SC to Miami, the keel is not attached at Jeanneau plant, Dealer installs keel, during a test sail, boat runs aground, "assuming the OP is not the buyer before the hull was manufactured and has bought a in stock boat" Dealer has not fixed or did a half assed fix. Another, dealer did not install keel correctly, or where the boat was splashed, the trip to the dealer water yard the boat ran aground, not fixed as of yet......

Local dealers splash yard if you will is 80 miles north of the Seattle in water sales place, so I do feel a grounding from work yard to in water sales yard could occur. or other options.

I also feel things like this occur to the best of us, like me last night running aground during a race. The issue appears to be VERY fixable. Of which, the dealer needs to make good on this at the very least, then Jeanneau America to France, depending upon the where the boat was manufactured, how delivered etc, ASSUMING the boat is new never owned. If used......whole nother issue!

Marty
 
#8 ·
Now that I went back over there and looked, Zanshin who posts here made a comment, similar to mine, "how was the boat shipped to miami etc?" Not much more than that said by him, other than to have a surveyor look at it, to see how much damage, or how to fix.

Marty
 
#9 ·
More Pics.

This boat was deliver to Florida Yatchs for a boat show in St Petersburg and then move to the boat show in Miami. The keel was install in St Petersburg by an unknown yard.
To me the paint on the side of the keel shows that has been re-painted, but because this could be criminal, they are very sensitive about giving me information.
At this point, Paul Rovinson, (Service Manager) offers to re-attach the keel and re-paint, but I'm not sure how big could be the damage done, and I bough a new boat, not a repair one.

Very difficult decision for me after investing so much money.
 

Attachments

#10 ·
First off, My 25 yr old Jeanneau every 2-3 yrs when I haul it out, has cracks to a point like what is shown. As do many others I know of other brands etc. Typical issue to a point for sailboats with keels.

BUT, with this in mind, TO me it still looks like someone grounded the boat with that much of a crack in the keel moving from initial yard, to boat show, to the yard you took delivery from IIRC the Dealer in FL has MANY sales sites. Who is to say how many times the boat was moved etc.

Not sure I would call what you see criminal, UNLESS they know a paid delivery person did the damage, and has not confessed, and they need to go after them. Or from your posting, I am assuming you are not english speaking as a #1 language, more a #2 or 3. So criminal is the word you are using to mean maddening or some other such thing.

I personally do not see an issue with the dealer/yard pulling the keel off, refairing the hull, rebolting, gluing etc the keel back on. That is the least they can do. This occurs I do not want to say frequently with older boats, but as I mentioned earlier, this cracking, and having to rebed the keel is a common maintenance issue you may or will have to do down the road.

In the mean time, Even if you were buying a catalina, hunter, Oyster etc..... The damage you see could occur if the boat was grounded as I suspect in an initial run. or test sail etc. It is not in your best interest to bad mouth the dealer or manufacture with this issue IMHO. Sure ask how it can be fixed, get it fixed on there nickel before taking delivery, and enjoy the boat. Keep posting here and over at the jeanneau owners site, register you boat in the owners area too. There are also some owners groups getting formed thru out the US, or if you are from elsewhere, look towards home to see what might be local also.

marty
 
#15 ·
First off, My 25 yr old Jeanneau every 2-3 yrs when I haul it out, has cracks to a point like what is shown. As do many others I know of other brands etc. Typical issue to a point for sailboats with keels.

BUT, with this in mind, TO me it still looks like someone grounded the boat with that much of a crack in the keel moving from initial yard, to boat show, to the yard you took delivery from IIRC the Dealer in FL has MANY sales sites. Who is to say how many times the boat was moved etc.

...
Hei Marty,

That don't seem normal to me. My Bavaria after seven years of use and some soft groundings (on sand and very slow speed) did not have a single crack. I think that what AlexMia wants to say is that what is normal to have in that place, where the keel joins the hull, is a flexible joint of mastic, not some paint trying to cover a problem. And criminal is perhaps a strong word but is illegal to try to conceal a defect in a new boat (or at least it his here).

I understand Mia doubts after a dealer that instead of discussing with him a problem try to conceal it. I understand why he does not have any confidence in that dealer. I would had the same doubts.

I think that after what happened I would demand somebody responsible from the factory to have a look at the boat, to see if it is in perfect conditions to have the keel remounted or not, I would demand a full explanation of what happened and a full apologize from jeanneau. I would also contract a good independent surveyor to follow all the re-montage of the keel to see if the steel attachment is not bent and if everything is absolutely perfect. But that is just me that don't like to be treated as a fool.;)

Regards

Paulo
 
#11 ·
Bit2sky,

First, there is no place on this blog that saids that members had to be English born, and your comment about English being my 3 language was un-fortunate.

Second, buying a brand new boat that has a non disclose damage is a criminal offense in the US, period.

Third, i paid 300 K for a new boat from a trusted manufacturer and a dealer with some reputation in the market, and what i got was a terrible commissioning of a boat with 70 engine hours and a broken keel, and disastrous paint job.

On top of that, the batterys drain after an hour without reason, the autopilot is not working, the AC uniits some times don't want to cool off, and the service manager of Florida Yatchs is always busy, it had an attitude,
 
#12 ·
Your right, you do not have to BE english born, but your english is a bit foreign in the way it was written, SO, I am trying to make sure I am understanding what you are writing. Is there a problem with that? Yes, I could have asked differently.........but I still asked to make sure I knew how you were writing. I see this issue with Paulo quite frequently, do I have an issue, no, but I also know he is from a different speaking country, and know to ask if I do not understand his written words, as I will with others to verify what they say. If this is an issue, not sure what to say on this.

Also true, that undisclosed damage is criminal or illegal, BUT, if the grounding occurred, they dealer did not know, as a hired delivery person did the delivery, they may NOT have know the keel was damaged. I do not know if a grounding occured, nor do you.....so how your keel got to the way it is, you need to hope they tell you, or fix it!. pretty simple.

Then again, maybe they did, tried to push it off on the next buyer, so go after them to the best you can. BUT, they have offered to fix the issue, let them fix it.

With that,

enjoy your day or evening.
 
#13 ·
by the way, there is thread Paulo started, where it took IIRC 2 wks for a charter company to notice a keel had fallen OFF, during a grounding of an SO37 in England. You do have a well built boat overall.............

Marty
 
#14 ·
"Second, buying a brand new boat that has a non disclose damage is a criminal offense in the US, period."
Gents, there's some confusion here.
1-There's no US federal law requiring a boat or vehicle dealer to disclose information, especially if they don't know about it. For HOME sales, there is a burden to disclose known or suspected faults, like asbestos contamination or lead paint, and I believe that's either federal or nearly uniform across the states. But for boats? No.

2-State laws wil vary by state, but again...and especially in FloriDUH, as a number of their own leading papers refer to it, the consumer laws are weak and enforcement usually consists of "Hey, sit down and have a drink."

I doubt Florida has a law requiring disclosure of what a dealer would call "It's been fixed good as new, it isn't a material issue". In any case, criminal fraud requires KNOWLEDGE of the defect, no one has proven that here. There's just one picture of one ugly keel joint, that sure doesn't look very professional from here.

Without getting distracted by the nuances...The question remains, is it fishy or is it foul? [pun intended]

Alex, do you have any larger or clearer pictures?
 
#16 ·
Paulo,

I wold agree, have someone from the factory or equal look at it in person, correct as needed. In a nutshell, what I have said all along, have the dealer/factory fix the issue and move on.

I still feel the boat was grounded to have "THAT" big of cracks in that area, and probably NOT disclosed or known by the dealer if a paid for delivery person moved the boat.

My last pull out did have a few cracks, yes due to some soft to med hits in sand etc, not HARD objects like rocks. Filled in, painted and moved on, as I did 3 and 6 years ago when we bought the boat. They were also NOT that big either. This does not appear to be a bad labor install.

I would also like to see the actual front bottom of the keel, that would or should show damage if a grounding occurred.

I would also say, "CRIMINAL" is not the correct use for nondisclosure of damage on something like this, as most folks, even with new boats will have a surveyor look over the boat, to see if there is any damage, non working items etc. IF OP did not hire a surveyor for his new boat, that was his non willing to pay about $400-450 to verify things were in order. No different than real estate agents recommend one have a home surveyed when shelling out these kind of bucks, euro's etc for a home.

As Hellosailor said, some states do not have laws stating disclosure, hence why BETTER dealers will suggest a survey for used, and even for a new boat.....Hence why I did not understand the initial use of "Criminal"

Marty
 
#17 ·
..

I still feel the boat was grounded to have "THAT" big of cracks in that area, and probably NOT disclosed or known by the dealer if a paid for delivery person moved the boat.

..
Hummm!!! if the boat was delivered by a skipper that has grounded the boat, who tried to conceal the damage, after the boat has been delivered? It seems to me that only the Dealer could have done that.

Regards

Paulo
 
#18 ·
I'm not sure this had to be the result of a grounding.. it seems pretty clear the boat was at some point transported sans keel and that the keel was attached afterwards (by an "unknown yard").

If it had been inadequately torqued, then faired, and then sailed some distance these cracks in the fairing would be expected, as would the apparent 'gap'.

In any case it's not something one would expect to find with a NEW $300K boat, that's for sure. The dealer should make it right... properly.
 
#19 ·
As everyone has said so far, the dealer needs to make this right, is correct. Be it a grounding, improper install of the keel or ____________.

Reality is, even a $100K 30' Jeanneau, SO30i, I would not expect this kind of gap at purchase! Or a $50K Flying tiger...

I still feel, if someone has not purchased boats, they should hire a surveyor, if not, they are somewhat at fault too. BUT, that still does not mean the dealer or commissioning yard should do improper labor installing the keel etc. Someone needs to ake the issue right. AND, this could happen with ANY brand of boat. I do not feel this is a manufacture issue, be it ANY brand of boat. Whether it occured due to a hard grounding, improper install....

with this, off to work I go, back this evening my time.

marty
 
#27 · (Edited)
It's a pity the OP never reported back. But has anybody considered this whole case being a hoax (either to victimize a particular dealer or the brand)? Could somebody compare the 3 pics shown with how a brand new keel and hull of SO 42 should look like?

I am quite new to this subject, but is at all possible to have such a bad paint job on a brand new, just delivered yacht? Also, is it normal that new yachts are delivered with 60-odd engine hours like the OP also mentioned in the thread?

Cheers,
Jan
 
#28 ·
sovereign, good point. The internet can be unreliable or sure. That's why I always suggest that we take everything we think we learn on forums as entertainment. If you think any of it is factual, just do homework on it first. Most does prove accurate, but don't play russian roulette.

That said, yachts are often transported over the ground with their keels removed and reinstalled and even a new yacht could appear in a boat show before its sold, thereby putting a few dozen hours on her to get there. The scenario is plausible, but we don't seem like we'll ever know if its true.
 
#29 ·
Thanks for throwing in the perspective, Minnewaska.

I've just recently seen a pre-owned 2007 DS (don't recall the exact size) for sale with just 90 or so hours on the clock. It seemed odd when knowing that half of it could've been clocked even before the yacht saw its first owner.

On a general note (hope I am not getting too OT), is hour meter rollback as common an issue as with used cars? Should one treat the value with utmost suspicion unless backed by maint. invoices and a surveyor report?
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top